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117. Legalize and Regulate Marijuana

WHEREAS, despite almost a century of prohibition, millions of Canadians today regularly consume marijuana and other cannabis products;

WHEREAS the failed prohibition of marijuana has exhausted countless billions of dollars spent on ineffective or incomplete enforcement and has resulted in unnecessarily dangerous and expensive congestion in our judicial system;

WHEREAS various marijuana decriminalization or legalization policy prescriptions have been recommended by the 1969-72 Commission of Enquiry into the Non-Medical Use of Drugs, the 2002 Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs, and the 2002 House of Commons Special Committee on the Non-Medical Use of Drugs;

WHEREAS the legal status quo for the criminal regulation of marijuana continues to endanger Canadians by generating significant resources for gang-related violent criminal activity and weapons smuggling – a reality which could be very easily confronted by the regulation and legitimization of Canada’s marijuana industry;

BE IT RESOLVED that a new Liberal government will legalize marijuana and ensure the regulation and taxation of its production, distribution, and use, while enacting strict penalties for illegal trafficking, illegal importation and exportation, and impaired driving;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a new Liberal government will invest significant resources in prevention and education programs designed to promote awareness of the health risks and consequences of marijuana use and dependency, especially amongst youth;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a new Liberal government will extend amnesty to all Canadians previously convicted of simple and minimal marijuana possession, and ensure the elimination of all criminal records related thereto;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a new Liberal government will work with the provinces and local governments of Canada on a coordinated regulatory approach to marijuana which maintains significant federal responsibility for marijuana control while respecting provincial health jurisdiction and particular regional concerns and practices.

Young Liberals of Canada
Liberal Party of Canada (British Columbia)

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  1. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    besides average joes god given right to get hi
    besides an end to marijuana related crime
    besides stirring the economy
    besides it being regulated better, out of the hands of children
    besides it opening a new field of scientific study

    there’s one more thing to consider.
    the thousands of people who have to wait months to get medical marijuana. people with epilepsy and nausea from chemo.with depression
    who have to fill out forms that doctors have to sign and witnesses to sign saying the doctors not liable
    then they have to get an assigned grower, then send in the forms, wait 8 to 10 weeks for a permit ,a card.
    then , you can legally take your medicine. and they have to fill out those forms once a year, the medicine is expensive and allot can’t afford it.
    to me that’s a crime in itself.
    make people go through that to get medicine.
    why can’t any doctor give out a prescription and the person takes it to a pharmacy and gets it filled ?
    its our current laws that are causing this to happen.
    it’s sickening .

    if health Canada is approving it to people with pain and depression
    non lethal conditions isn’t that a sign it’s not that bad for us?
    and that in fact it maybe beneficial for some to smoke.

  2. Avatar of Damon Trams Damon Trams said on

    If you believe alcohol should remain legal, consistency requires that marijuana should also be legal. To begin pontificating about how this resolution might be perceived is a coward’s way of saying that convictions are not as important and spin.

    The government should not have say over what we put into our bodies, especially if it is a substance scientifically proven to be less harmful than many substances already on our shelves.

    • Avatar of Dave Yadallee Dave Yadallee said on

      I for one do not believe that alcohol should be ‘legal’

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        Commercialization of legitimate business entities. Get the tobacco companies to corner it.

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        it is not a matter if something is good or bad. Prohibition simply does not work, making alcohol illegal didnt curtail drinking, it caused a mafia war as different families battle out for dominance. It does not work, it never worked, and it will never work. The supreme court already decriminalized simple possession. So there is no reason for them to be scared of having it. That’s alot of money for the hells angels and Rizzuto family.

      • Avatar of Damon Trams Damon Trams said on

        Then you should know you believe in funding organized crime. You have to be realistic. Prohibition creates Capones. Weed prohibition creates a massive fund for bikers and other criminals to buy guns, cocaine and influence.

  3. Avatar of Damon Trams Damon Trams said on

    as spin**

    • Avatar of Andrew Lang Andrew Lang said on

      Hi James,

      Unless we as a Nation are willing to remove ourselves from the U.N. Treaty on controlled substances – which would lead to the immediate closure of the border to the US – then we can not legalize Marijuana. It would require agreement from the UN to remove marijuana from the same classification as heroin in the treaty.

      We can decriminalize it and should. We cannot regulate it. Comparisons to alcohol are flimsy at best. One can illegally grow pot for their own consumption without detection or hardship. The difficulties and dangers in the operation of a “still” to produce alcohol on the other hand is what allows us to regulate that particular vice.

      See you in Ottawa,

      Andrew Lang

      • Avatar of Damon Trams Damon Trams said on

        I disagree that the States would close the border and risk the certain economic disaster that would certainly cause. It is time to stop treating ourselves like the step child of the United States and act in our own interests knowing that we, as their largest trading partner, have leverage and are not subservient to our neighbours. They can have their drug war but we should not be influenced by it. Also, legalizing, regulating and taxing marijuana would decrease smuggling. People tend to smuggle illegal products, not easily accessible products.

        See you next weekend.

  4. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    “the enocannabinoid system”
    google it
    marijuana is a medicine. even smoking it .
    health Canada agree’s
    scientist’s have discovered it’s compounds like thc
    have incredible healing properties.
    cannabinoids are the miracle drug everyone’s been looking for.
    they’ve known for years. tissue tests and animal test have been done . there making cannabinoid based medicines right now. patents are coming out. ” cannabis science ” its the new medicine

    and were arguing if it should be legal or not.
    these stupid laws,prohibition . is presently holding
    back the progress of Canada . in many ways.

    *A doctor in the states gets teens with add ,adhd to smoke pot
    and there able to function properly after wards.

    *smoking pot lowers your chances of getting cancer -dr.taskin ucla

  5. Avatar of Daniel Varga Daniel Varga said on

    These are the types of progressive laws that Canada needs. Financially and morally it just makes sense. I think there would be opponants, but it would take no time for Canadians to get used to it. Think of gay marrige. This would create a great national discussion on where justice is headed and where it should head. It would also greatly serve to define us from the other parties and show true strength and vision.

  6. Avatar of Graham Kittmer Graham Kittmer said on

    Decriminalization is definately the first step which needs to be taken in Cananda. I agree that Canada needs to start making their own decisions rather than worrying about the United States, especially when considering many of the individual states have decriminalized small possession already. This action is much easier said than done, however I think we can all agree it would be refreshing to witness our government taking the forefront on properly dealing with marijuana as well as other social issues. The prohibition of marijuana has failed, plain and simple. Canada needs to explore alternative avenues and it begins with properly re-educating its citizens who have been lied to using false statements and propaganda.

    • Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

      Decriminalization would do nothing to undermine organized crime or to safeguard youth and communities. Decriminalization does nothing to negatively impact the black market or grow operations.

  7. Avatar of Kirsten Barr Kirsten Barr said on

    Does this mean we will be able to buy pot and pay the tax but would not be able to grow it ourselves for our own personal consumption?

    • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

      Making hootch in your basement isn’t legal. The problem with today’s pot is the potency – as much as 100 times more than it was in the sixties and seventies. As a result, the CBD is just about nil.

      Selling it in a similar manner as alcohol just might get more of the population to agree with the proposal.

      • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

        @ Christopher
        Making wine is legal though and its the safety issues in question as to why hootch isnt because it requires a still and a still requires heat
        You are not supposed to weld in your basement either…so what?

        You are miss leading and I say completely wrong in fact
        If you think cannabis is 100 times stronger in fact I say you are lying

        I challenge anyone to find these so called devil or killer weed and please send them to me for analysis because I know its a lie

        If you did find some I want it any way…thank you

        CBD …?? now you are going to pretend you are not just reading DEA materials?

        Please explain how many cannabis samples you have tested ..where they were tested and what levels of THC and CBD you have seen??

        Again I call BS

        How much should normally be in cannabis Chris??..go ahead…

        And what does it do?

        Please show the levels for the last 80 years they have been ruining peoples lives for it …??

        Was this the excuse all along?? ..LOL

        Then please explain HOW YOU GROW CANNABIS WITH OUT CBD..??? YES PLEASE?

        I am blown away by the levels some go to I really am

        I also laugh my face off with some who think if it again becomes normal and re legalized that some how they will then need to worry about trying it if they have not done so so far..LOL

        Ignorance and misinformation needs to stop please

        There has always been good cannabis and bad ..meaning weaker and less bang for your buck

        Like with Everclear alcohol which of course most never get to try it is available and like with strong cannabis when it is used it is used in smaller quantities

        And it is Prohibition PERIOD that results in the attempts to concentrate drugs PERIOD !!

        Prohibitionists are totally responsible for Chrystal Meth and the soon coming flesh eating Russian cocaine soon here…but bottom line all the problems start with prohibition itself and LIES and greed.

        • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

          Cannabidiol (CBD) has been linked to the prevention of schizophrenia. I spent a good deal of time researching the subject after watching a documentary.

          I am not opposed to legalizing marijuana, just the absolute right to allow it so potent that the benefits are dissipated.

          We regulate alcohol for the same reason, and many studies have been done as to the benefits of moderate consumption. As with many things, it’s the excess of consumption that causes harm, and we don’t live in a Libertine society. We wear seatbelts, can’t drive intoxicate and have a myriad of other laws meant both ourselves and the people we affect.

          • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

            I hope you read my story of how we got seat belts eh?

            Yes like Everclear which is the purest and strongest legal alcohol you certainly wont find many shooting shots of it

            Like the alcohol model though is how I see it and we will clean the supply and provide the correct levels so that most will just as in liquor stores just use mainstream varieties


            See you all there !! ….I know our chances are limited what with harpercrit already scared to death we will even try to talk about it

            I am sure he has a plan to make sure liberal never wake up…I imagine some back room deal like with the ndp and the greens?? perhaps

            lizzy would have been a Senator about now I suspect ….had see not consumed the green party just to get herself important with MP salary


        • Avatar of André Brisebois André Brisebois said on

          Hi everyone,
          This has truly been a very thoughtful discussion, not to say debate. We appreciate that the conversation remains on the issue at hand and not on the people expressing their views. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated so thanks everyone for keeping this civil, respectful, and thoughtful. Discussion is an important part of democracy so by all means please keep going.

          • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

            You are correct Andre’ and I am sorry but lies or mistruths or what ever are very important to respond to
            I am not attacking Chris I am responding to the tone his words project and I still say that unless we deal with issue it will become much much worse the assortment of altered drugs

            It was my own police department who put out those angel dusted pot stories and it took a lot of work and pushing to get them to admit that they have never ever really ever found any

            Those I have fought for over 20 years will…some of them… even kill to keep this substance illegal

            I make no bones about my sense of urgency

            But Chris I apoligize if I went over board

            See you in Ottawa …I look forward to our discussion

            I am @ Le Suites and will be there thursday evening

      • Avatar of Kirsten Barr Kirsten Barr said on

        Pardon my ignorance but what is DBC? By the way….there are no regulations on how much we drink. It is perfectly legal to go out and get trashed every night. Clearly level of consumption is not the issue. Just the type of consumption.

        • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

          If you mean CBD, it’s a naturally occurring element of marijuana that counteracts the harmful aspects of THC, such as Schizophrenia.

          The higher the TCH is ‘bred’ into the plant, the lower the CBD. We can’t legally drink over proof spirits either. It’s set at 40% for a reason – death by alcohol poisoning. One generally passes out long before that occurs, unless the alcohol content is closer to 100%.

  8. Avatar of dmulligan dmulligan said on

    kirsten… legalized & regulated cannabis would be available for public sale (to a specified, minimum age group & above) & taxed just like alcohol and tobacco… once legalized, you would be perfectly free to grow your own for private consumption… this is all about freedom of choice and righting a 90 year old wrong that should never have happened.

  9. Avatar of Kirsten Barr Kirsten Barr said on

    Thanks for the clarification Dan. I have long felt that the cost of policing and imprisoning people for possession of cannabis is not worth the risk to society of legalizing. I have been to Amsterdam and they seem like a civilized bunch…I am sure we could be the same. I think the US’s biggest worry is how many folks would be booking their next vacation here!!

  10. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    there’s actually 65+ cannabinoids like thc and cbd in the marijuana plant ,but lets not get into that ;p

    there’s a lab in santa cruz that tests cannabis. they work with growers
    who wish to breed cbd back into the plant,while still keeping a hi level of thc. it’s not hard to fix the damage illegal growers have done.
    that would be a benefit of having it legal and regulated.

    btw our bodies make cannabinoids. anandamide and 2ag.

  11. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    This is part of why I am involved

    Please stand up and help educate
    We may never get another

  12. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Strange my computer has a mind of its own

    Maybe someone can add “chance” and delete this one !


  13. Avatar of Graham Kittmer Graham Kittmer said on

    That is a great link showcasing the benefits of medical marijuana. It is unfortunate that a vast majority of Canadian doctors wish to side with pharmaceutical companies rather than endorse marijuana and its copious benefits. The R. v. Mernagh case from last year showcases this fact as numerous witnesses (who all suffer from serious disorders) were brought forth to give firsthand accounts of the fact that doctor’s are refusing to provide medical marijuana for patients who need it across Canada. Moreover, in some cases the physicians make faulty statements saying they are not licensed/qualified to do so or that it might “look bad” on their reputations. Interestingly they are exactly the people given that authority by Health Canada, and before I write for days I will leave it at that.

  14. Avatar of dmulligan dmulligan said on

    Here’s an eye-opener/must read for everyone on this topic :-)

    We Liberals are actually responsible for this mess!!!



  15. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    ok so they do allow links
    for the last 6 months i have been gathering
    information on the endicannabinoid system.
    and have made a page on my site with video’s i have
    found important.

    good link shavluk .

  16. Avatar of Richard McNamara Richard McNamara said on

    It is not just about marijuana, it is the whole approach to ccrime. SMART ON CRIME!

  17. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    its time for legalization… and time for people to step up
    and not be afraid to admit…


    I am not a burnout or a loser,
    or a menace to society.
    I’m just a person who enjoys the effects of cannabis.
    I am your friend, your relative or a co-worker.

    Cannabis is not physically addictive, not a gateway drug,
    and substantially less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.
    What’s causing real harm is the failed policy of prohibition,
    which is providing a lucrative funding source for organized crime.

    It’s time for facts and reason to replace ideology and prejudice.
    It’s time to stop wasting taxpayers’ money on a harmful policy.
    It’s time to end the hypocrisy and legalize cannabis for adults.
    It’s time for all cannabis consumers to speak up and proudly declare…


  18. Avatar of Chris Gallant Chris Gallant said on

    Yes, it time we move forward and decriminalized marijuana. Canadian public opinion has not been the cause of the delay. Most Canadians have favoured this action for some time. My only comment taxation is this case referred to GST which would be applicable and up in general revenue. I would included that any additional tax or excise be direct to effective drug addition treatments rather than general revenue.

  19. Avatar of Michael Dupuis Michael Dupuis said on

    Its blatantly obvious to me, and a lot of other people, quit whining about this and that, bottom line, GOVERNMENT NEEDS MONEY, people in this country(no not everyone)want to keep all our government services, and add more for crying out loud, but they don’t want to pay more taxes, you need more revenue, plus its a green plant, therefore it creates oxygen, and also removes carbon dioxide through the process of photosynthesis, I don’t care about all the online christian warriors saying this and that, increased crime, blah, blah, blah, too bad, you’ve had it your way for so long, where the alchol industry pays the right people to maintain their status of the only legal drug.
    I’m sorry I’m so angry, but to me, this is a no brainer, first of all you do it on a probationary basis, meaning if it goes bad, eg. people sitting around all day smoking, and doing nothing else, THAT WON’T WORK GUYS, sorry.
    The first thing would be an application for a license to possess no more than a certain amount, and said license should cost around $100 dollars every year plus tax, and if the individual chooses to grow themselves, great, but they will have to apply for a growers permit, which will cost around $500 a year(because they won’t be purchasing government grown pot).
    Liberal party this is your only chance to survive, do a formal poll, not some one day thing, do an actual official poll and see the numbers in support of this, and even if its like 20-40 percent, approval, you have no choice, the revenue you will generate makes it too tempting.
    The best part is you will free up a lot of other useless funds, like the police busting marijuana drug rings, REALLY, pot rings?You will be able to focus on the real problems, stuff like Heroin, cocaine, and Crystal Meth, all I can say, you are on your last leg Liberals, I voted on every election since I was 18, and there is only one way you will ever get my vote, and I’ve just explained all you have to do, thank you.

  20. Avatar of Dave Yadallee Dave Yadallee said on

    Spirited debate! Passed strongly!!

  21. Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

    Congratulations on the success of the Convention. It was truly inspiring.
    Now that there is a yes vote on 117 – the Liberals certainly have my attention. 77% support is truly significant.

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  23. Avatar of Cynical 'Adult' Cynical 'Adult' said on

    Bad news. I can’t believe that this is “the” issue that came out of this weekend. The country is scared about their savings and jobs, the Euro zone is about to blow up, and what do you debate? Dope? Yikes! What the heck are you smoking? (Pun intended.)

    For the record – I think that it should be legalized and taxed. But yikes – this is NOT the most important issue faced by Canadians. Wait until you get into power, and THEN put this stuff forward. To put this out now — it’s way too idealistic and naive.

    Big MISSED opportunity.

    • Avatar of Nick Wagner Nick Wagner said on

      If you are worried about jobs and the economy, then you should be happy this is on the table. It’s legalization would create thousands, if not tens of thousands of jobs. Growing, trimming, drying & curing, transportation and finally retail sales.

      All these steps in the process in delivering quality cannabis to adults across the country requires a lot of workers and managers. The resulting increase in jobs, results of course in more consumer spending, thus resulting in a better economy.

      Our economy would also no longer have to lose half a billion dollars a year to enforcing useless, ineffective policy, as it does today.

      This is a much more significant issue than you seem to think.

      Liberal’s, please don’t disappoint our country! Know you’d make history as the revolutionaries who took the first step. Please make this move to legalize cannabis a reality. :)

    • Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

      @ Cynical ‘Adult’ . . .Bad news . . . Big MISSED opportunity! Hardly.

      Affirmation of 117 by a resounding 77% is hardly bad news. It demonstrates the Liberals are a party capable of dealing with the most contentious and under rated of issues of the 21st century head on. Nothing idealistic or naive about that.

      The convention demonstrated a Liberal Party dynamic capable of living up to the expectations required as Canada’s Bold New Party! That’s not a missed opportunity.

      • Avatar of Cynical 'Adult' Cynical 'Adult' said on

        This is the type of issue that should go to a national referendum. The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands. You need to get elected first, and then put out these types of issues to the entire country. It’s not good enough to say “the majority of Canadians support this”. Let Canadians vote on this as a separate issue and clearly indicate that they support it.

        Beware of hyping up “consensus” within the party. Sure, it’s nice, but some dissenting voices are entirely necessary.

        • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

          Cynical ‘Adult’ was quoted as saying…
          “The Conservatives will have a field day with their religious/tough-on-crime base, this plays right into their hands.”

          It is the cons “tough on crime bill” that is scaring the pants off the average Canadian… and driving them toward is so far out of touch with the reality in this country.

          In the Kelowna–Lake Country riding several informal polls validate this
          with 79% of people opposed to Bill C-10 and 78% in favour of legaliazion. Despite the obvious dislike of the C-10… we have no voice here… its being shoved down our throats…117 is an issue who’s time has come.

          We will look a lot worse if the cons chide us in the public eye.. and then we back down from resolution 117… the public/political will is there.

          Do we want to look weak kneed or look like some guff from the cons can get us to waver… IMHO this would make us look much worse.

          In the last year there has been a virtual landslide of credible people backing this very cause… health officers in BC, mayors, politicians…

          Public opinion is on our side.. don’t let the cons sway our resolve on 117


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  25. Avatar of BC BUDMAN BC BUDMAN said on

    For people who don’t think legalizing Marijuana is not important, think again what about all the innocent people who’s lives have been destroyed by prohibition and Steven Harper is trying to punish people more how can one party want to legalize and another wants to put people in jail for longer times, he is only fueling the gangs not hurting them. Marijuana has more medicinal value than anything on this planet and the goverment can not keep it from us any longer it cures cancer and many other problems if you dont belive just type (Rick Simpson Oil)in google and watch some videos, read some articles and it will blow your mind.. As far as i am concerned today is the most important development in legalizing marijuana i have seen in a long time. Way to go Liberals you have my vote

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  31. Avatar of dmulligan dmulligan said on

    Latest press release from LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) …

    Cops and Judges Applaud Liberal Party’s Marijuana Legalization Resolution

    Current and former law enforcement officers offer to meet with party

    VANCOUVER, BC — An international organization of police officers,
    judges, prosecutors and drug enforcement agents welcomes the approval
    of Resolution 117 at the Liberal Biennial Convention. Resolution 117
    calls for the legalization and regulation of marijuana, as well as a
    pardon for those previously convicted of simple possession. Delegates
    to the convention passed Resolution 117 by an overwhelming vote of 77%
    to 23%.

    “We do not endorse political parties or candidates,” says David
    Bratzer, president of the Canadian branch of Law Enforcement Against
    Prohibition (LEAP). “However, we do support actions that lead to good
    drug policy. The Liberal convention delegates have done this by calling
    for an end to the destructive and wasteful policy of marijuana

    Bratzer emphasizes the importance of this policy initiative: “Some
    commentators have suggested that the delegates wasted their time on a
    side issue, but nothing could be further from the truth. Prohibition
    costs Canadian taxpayers well over $2 billion per year, and does
    nothing except make organized crime rich. The delegates have proven
    that they are serious about using tax money responsibly and

    Bratzer is a serving police officer in British Columbia who
    participates in LEAP while off-duty. His personal views do not
    represent those of his employer, but they are shared by many other
    Canadians. According to an Angus Reid poll conducted in November 2010,
    50% of Canadians support the legalization of marijuana, while 44% are

    “LEAP is an educational organization. In this capacity, we extend an
    open invitation to elected officials and party members from across the
    political spectrum. Please contact us if you or your organization would
    like to meet and learn about the failure of drug prohibition,” says
    John Anderson, vice-president of LEAP Canada and a former correctional
    officer. Dr. Anderson is also a professor of Criminology at Vancouver
    Island University.

    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) represents police,
    prosecutors, judges, federal agents and others who want to legalize and
    regulate drugs after fighting on the front lines of the “war on drugs”
    and learning firsthand that prohibition only serves to worsen addiction
    and violence. LEAP does not endorse or support any political parties or
    candidates for public office. For more information, visit

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  35. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    To whom ever is running these pages

    Please do not make the same mistake the greens and the ndp made


    As I see is starting to be done

    Stand proud of how we got here or watch the cynicism come back

    There is nothing to hide here
    If its my comments that are the problem I can prove every last one and we will hurt ourselves by looking cowardly now

    Please consider that it is the comments that are also growing our support

    Thank you

    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

      oooopsy….. did not see the “← Older Comments” link…

    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on


      here we go…. wobble…wobble…wobble…
      sigh… you are missing a huge unrepresented block of voters…
      Big mistake…

      We are NOT “disconnected” form the world as Justin Trudeau suggest…

      sigh… lets have some backbone here!

  36. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    oooopsy….. did not see the “← Older Comments” link…

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  39. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    If anything PLEASE !!

    Put them in the proper TIME LINE

    And then watch our party GROW !!

  40. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    The value of Liberal Legalization Resolution + Bill C-10 “Write a Senator” campaign

    Liberal legalization resolution: Building momentum

    What does Resolution #117 do for cannabis law reformer in Canada?

    The *practical* value of the Liberal legalization resolution is as an OPPORTUNITY to:

    1- help build a positive national momentum toward cannabis law reform

    2- highlight the stark contrast between the *logic* of ending cannabis prohibition and the regressive, *ideological* drug policies of the Conservative Party (i.e. Bill C-10).

    The Big picture:

    [Step 1] Build a positive national momentum toward the idea of cannabis law reform (CLR), in general.

    [Step 2] Later, once that momentum for CLR exists, then debates about what legalization would look like, in practical terms, would be more timely and more able to be heard/understood by the public.

    At this point in time, the important thing is to get more of the country talking about CLR and expressing their opinions (step 1), especially people who aren’t already in “the choir.”

    ***The legalization resolution offers a reason to casually bring up the topic as a current news story.

    Start discussions with friends, family, co-workers, etc. Ask others what they think of cannabis law reform.

    You might even find that you don’t have to do much talking yourself, since others might overhear the topic of discussion and chime-in to explain why they support legalization.


    Don’t forget about Bill C-10 !

    Also very important, are efforts to educate about the imminent threat of the Conservatives’ Bill C-10 (omnibus crime bill) and the mandatory sentences it will impose on growers of 6 or more plants; how it represents a stark contrast to Harper’s regressive drug offences.

    What can YOU do about Bill C-10?

    Write a letter to a Senator… especially those Conservative Senators who are members of the committee that will be studying Bill C-10 in this upcoming session of Parliament. We need to appeal to their consciences, asking that they study the evidence with an open mind and when they vote on the bill that they are voting for what is in Canada’s best interest.

    Senators’ contact information and a sample letter…Visit the NORML Canada website for Senators’ contact information and a sample letter that you can easily print and send.

    Thank you,

    - michael

    Cannabis Facts for Canadians

    “Essential information for an informed debate about cannabis policy.”
    Stand in Canada’s corner and speak out against the Conservatives’ expensive, couter-productive mandatory minimums legislation. Do your part as a concerned citizen. Participate in the NORML Canada “Write a Senator” campaign! ( )

  41. Avatar of Stephen Pate Stephen Pate said on

    There are a few problems with the thinking on this resolution. The first is that Canada has a vast underground economy growing and distributing cannabis. Some of it is organized crime which should be put out of business. A large amount of the cannabis trade is small individual growers and sellers who should be grandfathered under any regulated industry. It makes no sense to hand the business off to R.J. Reynolds Tobacco or some other conglomerate. Otherwise, it’s about time.

    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

      I believe we are in the “Step 1″ phase of my comment below..

      a) – help build a positive national momentum toward cannabis law reform

      b) – highlight the stark contrast between the *logic* of ending cannabis prohibition and the regressive, *ideological* drug policies of the Conservative Party (i.e. Bill C-10).

      [Step 2] Later, once that momentum for CLR exists, then debates about what legalization would look like, in practical terms, would be more timely and more able to be heard/understood by the public.

      no one sad it would be easy… but the public will is there

  42. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on
  43. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    regulation would have to compete with a system of distribution
    that’s been evolving for 80 years.we may need to review
    other systems in place else where .

    Amsterdam has a system in place that works and has for some time.
    it’s based on small businesses. cannabis stores .

    I see that choice as an opportunity for many young Canadian entrepreneurs to create thousands of financially stable businesses nation wide.

  44. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    If you are a serious grower and could not make it worth your while to sell to grower co-ops for 20 dollars an ounce or less….I dont think you will be happy with us

    I know it only took “officially” 35 years of organized political effort to get a main stream political party to say they would re legalize cannabis

    Maybe getting one with your terms will be quicker for you though !

    Good luck…I would think the second time some one does it…. the beatings wont be as bad?

    But if you are still here and you can work with legality and outside or any side growing for that matter …and not worry about jail nor rippers nor bully’s nor over priced clippers …etc …etc we have space for any growers products in our collective

    Can you use your skills in an open free market to make any money?

    It will come down to quality over quantity like everything else

    Already the harpercrites have fired up the rhetoric with using media to dispel this policy and then of course show absolutely no way to rebuff it as we all should

    These are obviously some hoping for maybe a senate seat for themselves at that paper?

    But without question they are obviously fearful of our success

    Their portfolio contained a lot of the new jail company stock no doubt? Hmm it seems so

    Read there at that link for some answers they want answered but then they dont allow you …on purpose to answer them

    …. or read our resolutions comments for hints of policy and to see a real plan

    I know you can make an awful lot of money at anything over a buck or two an ounce so get that star dust out of your eyes and tell me why you should get more than any other farmer in an open market?

    If it isnt cheap many like others now have already shown up and will try to exploit the market

    If people think they will make what they did in prohibition you better do like they did in California as growers or exploiters or pimps of pot did and all rise up to kill that resolution ever seeing the light of day

    To some money is greater than freedom…myself I can see many successful coop growers making a great living and getting both

    And with none of their children in jail for their gardening skills

    Take care and cheers

    AND…..Will you help?

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      The argument that the US will close its borders to us if we legalize cannabis, is not a valid argument. The US wants our resources and will not give up access to them. They may make waves, as they have done on Keystone XL, but the pipeline will flow sooner than later.

      One of the current Republican candidates, Ron Paul, wants to end the war on drugs and allow the individual states to regulate them. While he isn’t likely to get elected, he is garnering substantial support. Their southern neighbour Mexico, will likely vote out the current party led by Felipe Calderon, over the failed war on drugs. The Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy has recommended that they, and the US,consider legalization. The dominoes are falling all around them.

      In order for us to win the war against the war on drugs, all that has to happen, is for the issue to become mainstream and for those support legalizaton, to transfer the shame to the shoulders of those that have supported a repressive prohibition that has destroyed many lives.

      The Liberal Party of Canada has made a bold step forward. Let us not let anyone impede our march towards sanity.

  45. Avatar of Michael Dupuis Michael Dupuis said on

    I just love the information, and the intellect being displayed here, as most Canadians(and our biggest opposition Americans)who do not support the legalization initiative are under the impression, that every person who supports legalization, are under the impression that all those in support of this, are a bunch of lazy pot smokers, who cannot string together a cohesive thought, as they must be a pot smoker.
    I’ve posted here before, and since have been well, astounded by the by the knowledge and ingenuity most of the people who have posted here are displaying.
    As for one or many previous poster’s have claimed that the United States would close their borders to us, were we to go ahead with legalization, REALLY?Thats the best you’ve got, bottom line, they need us, and frankly, a lot more than we need them, their country is desperately trying to keep its head afloat, and they can not afford to lose their relationship with Canada.
    I hate to put this out there, but if this is done correctly, and the Liberal party revamps a lot of other important issues, you will win a majority in the next Federal election, on this issue alone, and not just because of the votes you would get from a certain type of individual, who normally wouldn’t even vote.
    Thats why I said it has to be done correctly, I would be willing to bet there is a large part of the population of Canada, that doesn’t even know this convention happened, so I recomend you invest some money, reach out to the right technical geniuses, allow them to set up polls, via all the social media sites, and other mediums, with a simple question”do you support the Legalization of Marijuana?”, and “Will the Liberal Party of Canada, have your vote if they PROMISE that after they win the next election, legalize it, no waffling on it, a vote for the Liberal party in Next election, is your vote to legalize Marijuana, thats it”
    Now I know thats naive, and probably not possible, but the polls that I mentioned are definetly possible, and it would inform more people as to what you are trying to do here.
    I voted NDP in the last election, and thats the only way I will ever vote liberal, EVER!
    Thank you everyone, for posting here.

    • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

      “”"”and “Will the Liberal Party of Canada, have your vote if they PROMISE that after they win the next election, legalize it, no waffling on it, a vote for the Liberal party in Next election, is your vote to legalize Marijuana, thats it”
      Now I know thats naive, and probably not possible,”"”"

      No it ISN”T and ….it BETTER BE

      And with all due respect my friend and yes I saw your other post

      Anything is possible….if there is ….a WILL
      In fact nothing else matters

      Belief is the most powerful force in human existence


      Forget the part about “”"after”"”" the election too ….please

      It must be assimilated into policy NOW …right now if its REAL

      Or nothing can nor will change anyway

      Why should it not be if it is REAL..?

      As some of my comrades have said “so what..?… the liberals have again found a little guts AGAIN….So what..? They have done so how many times before???

      1978 !!..the same thing existed….a member approved policy to re legalize cannabis

      (I hope you read my earlier comments in here too?)

      Sorry if we really live in a “REAL” Liberal “Legalized Cannabis” world things in other policies obviously need to change today to reflect this change of philosophy or it hasnt really happened or changed…no?

      Sorry I am not one of the stupid ones…I use cannabis
      Or maybe I am and just have a cursed memory

      I guess it will boil down to how smart “we” liberals think the canadians I speak for … who we gave up on how many times..??…are

      And if they don’t remember how many times they were betrayed they will be NOW of course now watching for signs

      But really the majority will wait for signs period as they wont formally join…I am no miracle worker and they already have MJ ndp and green buttons hahhaa !!

      I am a mere scout …what can I say?

      Example….??? hmmm?

      As I said to Hedy Fry…here

      There is no such thing as healthcare with out THC….go look and see if you can see what I see..LOL


      And look up there to the left
      The share button
      Of course to some it is irrelevant …but
      Well I wont bother as some find me too crusty ..LOL
      That when voting closed it was under 500
      Actually on November 29th with two days left is was 98 VOTES and get this it had taa daaa .. 420 SHARES !!

      And we stopped allowing votes at # 201 on Nov 31 I think or I am sure it would be well over a thousand by now

      But then as things progress and die down truth seeps out
      Little snippets…it never ever fails
      Tell tale signs….weakness

      Not much is missed in my camps
      Its not some hobby issue….some die in my issue…get it

      Like this below that comes out innocuously enough ….almost like stockwell day now showing up with medias ear easily and tells everyone harpers team really does think dinosaurs are mere fakes and just a conspiracy by saskquatches

      Any of this sinking in ?

      Well I can and maybe some others can too watch the numbers slow down here now or reverse
      The Choice is thankfully not Martins

      This post

      “”” DECRIMINALIZATION is now being floated as an option by Liberal leadership hopeful types and the major media as an acceptable “first step”

      (not major media…harper media)

      Martin Cauchon, the justice minister who introduced the invented liberal word “decriminalization”, said Sunday he believes legalization is inevitable but that Canadians would be more comfortable with decriminalizing pot as a first step.”

      Oh really Martin? Hmmm..really eh?

      I am a canadian Mr Martin and I say that word is a misnomer and created for cowards

      $100 dollars for first offence…in your plan
      $500 Second offence …

      $1,000 a Third offence etc etc

      How long before those like me Sir …who will pay NONE …go to JAIL?

      No… its hiding behind a lie actually

      And you of course will never ever ever ever get mine or any of my friends VOTES !! PERIOD
      When they decriminalized sodomy in the US in 2003, they didn’t replace criminalization with a fine system.

      In fact, no country or state has replaced sodomy criminalization with sodomy fines.

      When they repealed the US abortion law to allow for therapeutic abortions in Roe vs. Wade in 1973, they didn’t replace criminalization with a fine system.

      When New Zealand decriminalized prostitution in 2003, they didn’t replace criminalization with a fine system.

      Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong, but in all the modern cases of decriminalization – abortion, breastfeeding in public, drugs, euthanasia, homosexuality, prostitution, public nudity and pornography, the only example of replacing criminalization with a system of fines are in drug cases –

      AND SPECIFICALLY marijuana cases


      Either walk the talk…or walk the plank
      Parlor tricks for cowards wont keep me
      They call it a War for a reason
      Its too bad Mexico’s 60,000 dead innocents example…. falls on blind eyes and willfully deaf ears

      You miss the convention Sir?

      I suppose the details will be fleshed out IF they put it on their platform and IF they get elected and IF they keep their promise to legalize … admittedly those are three very big IF’s

      But at the same time more and more will eventually wish they had built the party in more than just a Writ period

      Me for example

      Because I know what probably will happen


    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on is quoted as saying….

      “I just love the information, and the intellect being displayed here, as most Canadians(and our biggest opposition Americans)who do not support the legalization initiative are under the impression, that every person who supports legalization, are under the impression that all those in support of this, are a bunch of lazy pot smokers, who cannot string together a cohesive thought, as they must be a pot smoker.”

      Yes MikeyBear… its an uphill battle to break the “pothead” stereotype… but social media will prove this stereotype could not be farther from the truth.

      Even during the convention Justin Trudeau said during an interview with James Di Fiore ( that he felt consuming cannabis “disconnected” users from the world.

      In the “social media” circles I hang out in… nothing could be farther from the truth… :-)

      The Liberal party is building some momentum with us… and as long as this resolution 117 is not another ploy to get votes and the party follows through… this will definitely result in votes for the party.

      We despise harpers cons as much, or more than anybody… so lets rebuild the party.. kick harpers arse out of power… and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for us, is resolution 117.

      Lets not forget.. that since the 117 resolution was passed there has been almost ZERO negative publicity, and a virtual landslide of polls from one end of the country to the other… showing the will of the people is .. clearly behind this. (66% on average pro legalization)


    • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

      Those of you who think that after legalisation that anyone will be able to grow pot in their basement are living in a fantasy world.

      The bureaucrats from Health Canada will jump all over this, and in the end, it will probably only be legal to produce by either the tobacco or booze producers, who have a great deal of experience dealing with myriads of regulations.

      It will be treated like tobacco and spirits, not beer and wine

      • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

        @ Christopher

        Please show us your credentials…??
        Or… at the very least what authority are you quoting to say what you do here ?
        Where are you getting this information?

        I am sorry but I see nothing guaranteeing the two worse business’s against our freedoms for 40 years will now get to dictate how our freedom will be brought back out..???

        Did I miss a meeting??

        I worked with SAFER of Colorado who brought out legal cannabis there and no business spent more MILLIONS of dollars trying to keep us going to jail and as slaves than the alcohol business

        All the BIG NAMES in booze gave millions and LOST !!

        All the booze business’s worry with very good reason about us earning our non slave status and freedoms ……PERIOD!!

        And no one spent more money… as I say to try to stop us and keep us as slaves !!!

        I say none of this has been decided and that there is nothing now stopping any one from growing grapes or apples etc and making their own wine at home so quit this ridiculous teasing of the long prosecuted and marginalized with absolutely no authority that I know of to do so

        You to must see a transition just like we saw with re legalized alcohol in the 30′s…NO?

        It took years and years to get to where we are now with alcohol and I see a transition with this as people give up growing and just pick up a pack of 5 joints at the beer store on their way home because it is so much easier and cheaper in the long run

        Its much more expensive to make wine or beer at home and so will cannabis be in the end

        I say you have absolutely no authority to say what you do and if the party is serious about this resolution they will… just as they profess…. use facts based research and experts in the field to draw out this model

        That Christopher means people like me and some I know

        @ Michael

        I am not to sure if you are aware but since I have been brutalized and attacked multiple times by police and others over the years I always carry spy cameras

        I am not sure if you saw my video linked here but it contains some of that footage

        You may also not be aware that I as soon as I saw Justin I went up to Mr Trudeau myself and with the knowledge I have of his visits out here with us in Vancouver I reminded him that I know he has used cannabis and that to me he is not nor has he been truthful in recent media reports

        He admitted his cannabis use to me and came clean and over the next few days I came to forgive his transgressions and knew it was merely the intense scrutiny and almost racism and discrimination we are all familiar with in our stigma that caused his original blunder

        I forgive him and with us now supporting the membership to do this transition I think you will all be amazed over the years as to who was actually a closet hypocrite all along or not

        But I have legal “publicly” obtained video to back up every word I say

        I explained a lot… to a lot…Mr Rae…Mr Kennedy and many more

        I reminded Mr Kennedy for example that had he not written me back… at the time… saying he was against re legalized cannabis (actually marijuana and he could not even spell it ) we would not then have abandoned him at the last convention and then given over our many many votes there over to Mr Dion !!!

        As I say it took years and years for the lies to be so well ingrained….in all of this

        But please give us a couple of months to undo some of them… please… as harpercrite is in my opinion already shaking in his boots just with what we have done so far

        But realize none of us speaks for all of us…even Mr Rae is only an interim leader and not the membership and has again already assured me (on tape) that he will not VETO THIS

        If he wants to be leader I would think he would help those of us who have already started rebuilding this party?

        I was against Mr Rae because of his stance on MEDIA mere hours before this hit the convention room floor ….. but now I am a big big FAN !!


        To all of you others now waking up to the fact that we may now finally now have help
        Please do not believe every word you read from mere members here

        None of them including me really have all the answers…its all speculation

        But read the OFFICIAL RESOLUTION for the spirit of OUR SPIRIT !!

        And then help us and then lets get this done !!

        WILL YOU !!! HELP ??? PLEASE ???


        • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

          Shaveluk: If you only are prepared to look at an issue from one side, you are being intellectually dishonest.

          When I come to a point of view, it’s after looking at both sides, trying to disprove what my original opinion might be.

          If I have to write it yet again, I AM NOT AGAINST THE RESOLUTION!!!

          It it you who are trying to change it.

          • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

            Thank you Chris
            My name is shavluk by the way
            I know you respect the vote but I do not believe you really respect us users… again my opinion

            And I have researched what you say else where for example ( and more actually)

            I am sorry if I do not come across right but your comment is totally misleading and you discount all the research done that destroys david suzukis attempts to paint cannabis as some trigger for schizophrenia

            There is no proof of what his show attempted and I have even told him so myself and have even been in his house

            I again ask why you keep on in this thread discounting peoples comments?

            I already asked you to share more so we might understand your view better

            And with all due respect can I ask if you in fact have ever even tried cannabis?…or alcohol… yes alcohol because just about every heroin addict has and everyone of those on the suzuki show HAVE ???

            If you reread the comments in question above you should see that the person was talking about regulation as tax was mentioned and no tax is applicable in an unregulated market

            I am curious about you though as it is important that if we are to be successful with this policy we need our own members on board obviously

            You say you are in favor of this resolution but I say to me it certainly does not seem so

            Where is this poll you spoke about as you earlier said you had posted one as a non supporter of this policy (with Don who reversed his views and is now ok with it) where is it?

            To any I offend with my style I am sorry and can only say that when I was jailed beaten and bankrupted trying to spread the truth about this issue I lost a lot of social graces and have a burning rage inside

            I do not for example turn and walk away as so many others do as children are being beaten …for example

            I crash in and destroy not only people but entire political parties if need be

            Ask the greens

            I am in no way threatening by that comment what I mean is I am standing on the side of science and truth and will always call a spade a spade and you chris have in my view publicly opposed this resolutions vote

            So yes I would like to try to get to the bottom of it so that we together can stop the travesty’s I see every day and so that we can together build this once great party


            ***Disclaimer: the opinions expressed are my own and like chris or anyone else here I do not speak for the liberal party***

            • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

              Like most of my generation in the 1970′s I experimented for a very short period with pot. I stopped after a month or two, as I was in university and needed all my faculties to continue to get high honour grades.

              I also did my share of drinking in my younger years, but rarely drink now, as I know alcoholism runs in the family.

              I also have a stepson whose life was nearly ruined before he recently gave up pot, alcoholism running on his side of the family as well.

              Regulations won’t stop abuse of pot or alcohol, but it’s better than having none at all, as 95%+ of Canadians a law abiding and most don’t have the addiction gene. I wouldn’t want to see the regulations on alcohol production either.

              Regulations can also help to avoid problems such as the current ones with Ecstasy.

        • Avatar of Michael Dupuis Michael Dupuis said on

          Sir you guys so have the right idea, I can’t tell you how many of these pages I sign up for, and get sick same old arguments, and stop following, as for this, everytime I get an email notification that someone has posted here, I immediately read it.
          It fills me with hope, I’m not personally vested in this, the only thing I have to gain, is cleaner air through the process of photosynthesis, and a government with more money to spend on programs to help people get off hardcore drugs FOR GOOD, and not continue to repeat the same old pattern, of; do tons of heroin, cocaine, etc.get arrested, go to prison, do drugs inside(because there is barely any substance abuse intervention, CSC ensure that they get the bare minimum of treatment before they are released),do their time, get back on the street, and do it all over again.
          I do not think the legalization of pot alone will fix all of our country’s problems, no but what I meant by hope, is that this is not a Legalize pot forum put together by some teenage pothead in his Mom’s basement, this is being discussed by the Liberal Party of Canada, this might actually happen.

        • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

          You might want to read the resolution. It calls for both legalisation AND regulation.

          To quote Max Weber, politics is the art of compromise. You aren’t going to get everything that you want and the prohibitionists aren’t going to be able to continue to ban it.

          There’s a reason for most health related regulations.

          • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

            “”"”"BE IT RESOLVED that a new Liberal government will legalize marijuana and ensure the regulation and taxation of its production, distribution, and use, while enacting strict penalties for illegal trafficking, illegal importation and exportation, and impaired driving;”"”"

            The resolution is clear

            What are your real fears or concerns Christopher?
            We are on the same team

            I am sorry for my style…I do have a rage created in a jail cell as an innocent citizen 20 years ago

            I apologize for my bluntness

            But I do not get the attempts to take the wind out of our sails or to consider yourself the voice of the party

            Can you share a little more so that we all get where you are coming from on this?

            No offence but to us its like someone not in agreement with the spirit of our resolution

            And we all need to get together to build the monstrous party I see emerging

            How do we put some of your concerns aside?

            As you said it…can you please list these so called health concerns I have obviously averted for nearly 30 years?

            What are they??
            And did you read about what I said caused the most concern for my health in the cannabis issue?

            It was jail

            Thank you

            • Avatar of Carl Braund Carl Braund said on

              Chris, what simple or reasonable issue do you have against the complete release of the cannabis plant (Hemp as well Marijuana) from any and all control – the way it was before corporate greed saw the complete snuffing of such as a major advantage? Did you realize this is a simple natural plant? Did you at all consider the FACT that no human has any constitutionally legal authority to deem to another individual about the use of this phenomenal piece of natural amazing-ness?

              One must simply do a ‘pros & cons’ list of BOTH (separately) Hemp as well Marijuana. Your homework assignment.. As one starts filling out these lists, one begins to notice the BENT of illogical and propagated subterfuge that has conveniently shrouded the ENTIRE species into one convenient social outcast – evil weed – devil gateway spew – ever since the original and distorted prohibition was illegally & successfully enforced, let alone conceived.

              Rather, with all due respect, the major spotlight focus of (particularly) Marijuana IN THE PUBLIC’s EYE has been on the 0.01% use of this plant, that being RECREATIONAL use. Outside of that 0.01%, there is an outstanding 99.99% use that has been UNACCOUNTED for – again – conveniently – so as to not allow the population masses to actually wrap their collective heads around the blatant FACTS that this species of freely naturally growing plant should, could & would be free to grow in the backyard garden along-side the beans & carrots.

              You are talking about ‘concern’? Are you stating that all alternatives presently ‘available’ from current corporate & political monopolizing buffoons are a better route to sustain on a global scale rather than letting this entire LIE go once-&-for-all & relinquish the inevitable truth to the people who are actually killing our own species in lieu of harnessing all the greatness this simple plant species has to offer – and always had to offer all-the-while? Concern?
              I had a great discussion with a gov’t ‘insider’ recently who works on behalf of Health Canada – they were quick to point out the Government’s ‘concern’ as well, regarding the THC content on the Marijuana side (vs Hemp, which is beyond all logic as to why it is even involved in this idiocy). They stated that ‘for the protection’ of the people, there is a great need to ‘control’ this plant. How comforting, considering for 80+ years ‘they’ have been selling us down the river, allowing Monsanto muscle to take over our & our children’s DNA, endorsing Monopolypharma Inc.s to offer their synthetic, highly addictive, more harmful than beneficial dangerous crap, while feeding us bio-engineered disasters day after day! No. That is shear evil.

              Consider that I have spoken to countless Seniors about the option of having a simple free, COMPLETELY natural alternative for their sleeping issues, arthritis issues, psoriasis, as well A HOST of other very common health & well-being issues with nothing but perplexed disbelief about why they are so far off in ‘left field’ about any of this – they’ve been stuck in the ‘EVIL WEED’, Reefer Madness propaganda machine. By the time I even get to the 5 minute-mark of discussion, they are saying to me – so how do we change this?
              Chris, you are displaying some pretty 1-sided posturing yourself, quite frankly, so very expected of one who either has a vested interest to either gain somehow from the status quo, is too focused on the potential monetary gains if indeed it were ‘legalized’ or ‘decriminalized’, OR you are just dead-set on some preposterous belief that this plant actually presents some form of danger.
              A COLPETE TURN AROUND – Yup! 180 degree turn is what is required here! This Liberal stance is ‘a start’, a step in the right direction, however, it too is missing the BIG PICTURE completely, and unfortunately is clouding the waters even more.
              The SIMPLE point is, these plants are nothing but beneficial to both humans as well as the planet we are currently infesting.
              These plants are an astonishing species that offer a natural, beneficial, FREE, non-toxic, non-addictive, superior fibre, super food, super medicine, super everything you can apply it too solution to our present global living condition. Are you ready to accept this fact? It IS indeed fact. Now that you have done your ‘pros & cons’ lists, you should be wholly aware of this.
              To conclude, again, there is only propagated ‘hype’ being endorsed by a host of groups (listed in a previous comment) who are presently benefiting from any ‘control’. The concept of these plants being COMPLETELY REMOVED from any and all taxation, control, limitation, access issues, legalities, or any other such methods of hindering total access to growing, harvesting, using, possessing, or processing well within reality, on the contrary. It is the truth – and the truth, by default, always trumps!
              It’s just a matter of time. Our health & well-being as well as the planet’s environment cannot sustain the current course any longer. Being able to make a fine rice wine in my kitchen actually is a far more sinister reality than a miraculous, simple, natural plant suffering a class-action International liable & slander attack in dire need of some backing.
              One last thing – schools should be mandated to educate kids about the serious benefits these plants have to offer immediately. That’s more responsible than endorsing a gaddamn alcohol product on our highways or media! Stunning.

            • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

              Don’t misunderstand me – I have no problem with the resolution. It’s those that think they will be able to grow their own pot without restriction and are against the ‘regulated’ part that concern me.

              • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

                Thank you for saying this
                Well with all due respect what is the problem if I have a dandelion plant or a cannabis plant in my garden?

                We dont have concerns with apple trees ..dont forget

                I think we will be able to produce our own without fear of prosecution ridicule or stigmas and if this resolution means otherwise it is news to me and will be incredibly damaging to our party

                As I say I am glad that neither of us speak for the party…yet… and will stay hopeful …and am shelving our Federal Common Sense Party for now and will obviously see if we are all on the same page

                But in the mean time lets let new people and new members have their say without being belittled and I do say that they have been as what you say may be nothing more than pure speculation !!

                And if you haven’t signed up hundreds of new members in the last week you are far far BEHIND US

                How many did you get???


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  48. Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

    If legalization is to be adopted by both the Liberal party and general public as a viable platform there is a great deal of work to do beyond what legalization entails. What models to consider, how regulation and taxation fit in, who the stakeholders are, jurisdiction; these are just some of the issues that will have to be dealt with.

    Another realm of consideration should be the replacing of the anti-drug strategy with a national drug strategy that includes both an education component and a robust harm reduction component. Empowerment through education and harm reduction should be the core focus of a national drug strategy; moreover, it should be presented as a comprehensive entity that is seamless.

    As well, marketing & networking are essential for a successful campaign.

    • Avatar of said on

      I agree a lot of work is required BUT not regulation. If the LPC wants to set itself up as Canada’s dope dealer it’s headed for disaster! It should not follow any existing “models” but instead actually be made legal (period). Then the growers and sellers can actually start small businesses, hire people, pay taxes, hire accountants, lawyers to incorporate their businesses, use freight companies (and Canada Post) to distribute their products etc. etc. David Suzuki did a documentary on pot and I think the LPC does not realize, that the tax revenue from this one source alone is enough to over fund ALL OTHER SOCIAL POLICIES, including drug awareness AND ELIMINATE NATIONAL DEBT FOREVER! If they truly want to turn things around then legalize it AND STAY OUT OF IT! We don’t need M.C.B.O. (my spin on LCBO) that will only create “legal weed” and “illegal weed”. I want the growers and users to come completely “above ground” and participate in our society. It would be like any business; if theirs money to be made in other Marijuana products (and there is) then the research and development will take place WITHOUT government involvement.
      We could actually be the world leader in scientific research of this substance and have breakthroughs and new discoveries that put Canada on the world stage. In David’s documentary it completely stopped epileptic seizures and that’s only 1 benefit there are literally thousands. Our governments have scared us away from this for too long! It has so many benefits and so many possibilities. That is if they can stand up and educate those who oppose it for no other reason than an emotional response; they have to cut through the BS and misinformation surrounding this topic.
      But most importantly they must let it evolve on its own and not be Canada’s dope dealer! The free market will take this product where it needs to go! Someone needs to launch this and I hope it’s the party I support!

      • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

        I must profoundly disagree with you. Health Canada is around for a reason, and while not perfect, does try to make sure unsafe elements don’t get into our bodies.

        There are reasons why alcohol and tobacco are under tight regulation. Too much of the essential ingredient can kill you very quickly.

        If you carefully watched the Suzuki documentary, you would have noted that too much THC can lead to mental health issues, and it was the non-intoxicating element CBD that ameliorated the problem.

        In it’s natural form – without being amped up by elevating the THC, both THC and CBD are well balanced.

        • Avatar of said on

          Hi Chris; Do more research! You can die from drinking too much water too, but are you afraid of water??? Google it there’s more than 1 of them. How much THC would it take to kill you? How many crackers would I have to eat to choke?? I doubt your claim! It’s that sort of ignorance that has kept pot illegal. Do you really think a pot business would want to KILL IT’S PATRONS? You sound like a conservative fear “mongerer” trying to sway people with partial truths and even BS! Come on give Canadians more credit than that! I cannot find a single claim of death by pot! As for alcohol and tobacco pot is weaker than alcohol and cigarettes are highly addictive. The government fails at all attempts to regulate anything, need examples? Guns, alcohol, tobacco (ever heard of illegal cigarettes? I have, every heard of a bootlegger? I have. Oh and by the way if they are so darn harmful why are they legal in the first place??? ANSWER: CAUSE PEOPLE WANT IT! You really have to open your mind more :) Health issues aside, because we need more proof than “Chris’s opinion” (neither of us are fully qualified for that anyway) what about the social aspects of people NOT going to jail for something they chose to do that does not hurt others? Thanks for your reply Chris, but let’s add accurate and meaningful input and not spew ignorance. So if you want to tell me it will kill my people PROOVE IT! Otherwise you’re just another source of UNIMFORMED hot air! If there are health “legitimate” concerns, then they can be addressed accordingly. The point I’m driving at is it is all underground and the economy is suffering and has been for 50 years or more. The product is being sold, bought, grown, used and it’s all UNDERGROUND! If these people are getting sick they are already going into the health care system anyway so take the bull by the horns, and stop chasing it around with a shovel!!!

          • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

            You could calm down a bit before you offend those such as myself who are trying to get marijuana users dropped from the criminal rolls.

            If you think I’m uninformed, you don’t know me at all. I don’t form any opinion before doing a great deal of research, which from all the rants I read on various sites is a rarity.

            There’s a reason why non regulated alcohol and cigarettes are illegal, and if you had read my post carefully, no where did I write that marijuana can kill you. If you were to read what’s happening in the West from one drug masked as another, you might be more sympathetic to having a regulatory body to ensure the safety of what we eat, drink and smoke.

            • Avatar of said on

              @Chris Hey Sorry! I did not mean to come off that way; when you wrote “the main ingredient can kill you quickly” it sounded uninformed and that you were in fact saying you pot can kill you :) I just want it brought completely above ground. Having a regulatory body to ensure public safety makes sense, and I admit you are correct in that it will need “SOME” regulations. But not like alcohol and tobacco, more like licensed growers, health inspections (like an agricultural endeavour). Anything short of that will only create legal and illegal pot; then we are no further ahead at all. It’s not going away and throwing kids in jail is not the answer either. So when I read it as “pot can kill you” I must admit I LOL and felt a bit “charged” at such an idea. I want to promote meaningful dialogue too. And to Mikeybear; I have nothing vested in this either, aside from maybe an income tax break, if the gov’t bank account gets filled :) I am, however, the father of a brilliant teenager with a bright future that could be ruined by one bad decision to try something I truly feel is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Thanks guys, have a great day!

              • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

                No sorry you were correct in your reply

                CHRIS does not speak for anyone…but himself
                If it is for anyone its the 23 % who tried to stop this resolution

                Just read his comments and you will see he is not our friend

                Chris again I ask what authority do you use to say such ridiculous things?

                “”"There are reasons why alcohol and tobacco are under tight regulation. Too much of the essential ingredient can kill you very quickly.”"”

                That may be a harmless statement to you but to me its crap

                Show us the bodies or retract it
                The fatal dose is something like the THC from 1500 pounds for gods sake

       please maybe read the comments and the older comments as well

                Chris is like many we meet and about his own sense of self importance I think because after being told many times the same things he still tries to rain on our parade

                He isnt trying to stop harm from any of us and on the contrary would bury this resolution in fear …my opinion

                Please just ignore this type of person and please just contribute your own personal story…we need more here

                But as senior liberals and those with some actual authority unlike chris are reading all this and I ask that you please just dont get hooked by those like him

                Please share your stories of how cannabis helps you and leave the fear mongers to themselves

                He is on the record of being against us and his comments say it all

                Thank you

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      If the LPC is serious about this, they should be forming a committee now, to deal with these issues.

      If they are not serious, and they also cannot find the way to present a united front against the conservatives, it will not matter, as they will continue to be a skeleton of what the LPC once was.

  49. Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

    I am going to address the elephant in the room. Has any considered the consequences this would have on our largest trade corridor. I guarantee you trade to the US will become much more difficult. Especially since Mr. Romney’s election prospects are becoming favorable.

    • Avatar of Richard McNamara Richard McNamara said on

      Ture the US is a problem, and must be considered. That is one of the reason for us to develope more trade with the rest of the world. It is not only on this issue that we come up against the US wants and needs.

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      We have already addressed it. Their southern neighbours are moving towards legalization faster than we are. It is unlikely to affect trade negatively and if it did, it is not as though there will be a shortage of worldwide markets for our natural resources.

      We can invent all the excuses in the world as to why the liberals shouldn’t stick to their resolution but when the next election comes, if the liberals don’t have it as a policy, and can’t work out an arrangement with the rest of the current opposition parties, we are stuck with conservatives and their war on social justice.

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        If that is true, then we should proceed, it should be done in step with our neighbors rather than against.

        • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

          So, as part of the flock, rather than leaders?

          • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

            yes, as part of the pack. Let’s not delude ourselves in thinking we are a driving force in the foreign sphere. Our laws must be made keeping in mind the presence of border smuggling across a large border. If the Americans go for an increased war against drugs, and we legalize, it will not be good. I have no problem with cannabis, I’m sure most of it’s health benefits are hype(as tobacco was supposed to be good for you) but let’s not let our pride overwhelm our circumstances. Canada’s influence comes from our previous history in providing good advice and hitting above our weight in initiative spearheaded by foreign forces. Mr. Harper is correct in his economic assessments that jobs need to be safeguarded first in these times. I don’t like how he goes about doing it but that’s another story. We must not allow the trade corridor to be threatened, and that may require a retreat on principles. Better for people to have homes over their heads and food on their table. Summary, I am for the legalization of cannabis, as both a tax source, opening the door into medical research, and possibly as an export. However, we must not go about this alone, and must keep expediency towards the Canadian economy, Canadian workers, and Canadian companies in our mind.

            • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

              That is part of the attitude that led the Liberals to a crushing defeat in the last election and could do so in the next. In order to do any good in any sphere, the Liberals first need to get elected. In order to do so, they have to have most of the social justice vote. Harper owns the right.

              Cannabis is not the issue, it is just one of a myriad of misguided policies which have helped to give the Conservatives a majority and will continue to do so, if we cannot open our minds and become leaders rather than followers.

            • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

              No matter how I try…. I just cant turn …a blind eye

              Wow zachary…..really??…like is this serious??

              “”"I’m sure most of it’s health benefits are hype(as tobacco was supposed to be good for you) “”"”

              Well ok zachary I guess I have to say I disagree with all of this
              And maybe tell Michael J Fox to stop smoking cigarettes even if they help his Parkinson disease..sure..ok

              ps the majority of cigarette smokers of course do not die from that habit

              And some have reached 122 years old (guinness)

              You are sure its hype eh? ….cannabis as medicine..??
              hahahhhahahaaaa wow

              Are you not a lab tech?
              Are there receptors in the body for CB1 THC and CBD …OR NOT ..??…
              Yes or no?

              If yes ….as I know to be true ….it looks like a refund of some school expenses should be due?? Eh?

              Please give your data to show why you disbelieve thousands and thousands of testimonies from sick people with cannabis …yes please I will bite


              “”"”However, we must not go about this alone”"”
              Really ..?

              Sorry that’s just silliness to me and I totally disagree again

              Hell with that kind of thinking americans would not even have made it to the moon

              I would think any living on the TIT (taxpayers income taxes ) would maybe be concerned with our trade deficit …sure… but most do not even think of border issues when they want …oh like gays to be stopped from being killed for their sexuality etc ….hmm I wonder if some were concerned with lost trade when we stopped destroying gays here first …hmm???

              And again I must point out that our richest citizens took advantage with alcohol in exactly the same manner as is happening now with cannabis any way legal or not

              I laugh thinking of the closet millionaires who will all of a sudden be out of the closet and looking like they were something cause they have money and made it all in crime…Bromfmen with alcohol for example

              No sorry I dont buy it and the border will be just fine…same at it was with alcohol
              As if we could close it …LOL or they could
              Sure just turn all your cars into Flintstone types and all will be just fine

              Any other problems you see with making those like me not live in terror for our house plants?

              You of course just …fire away

              But lets stay with truth please and not unsubstantiated theories

              Whew I feel so safe with the border today …hmm…must be because of all the laws stopping all the bad activity…whats that …??…Afghanistan opium smuggled in by the US army crosses every day unchecked ?? and the trade in it had multiplied a hundred fold since the US invaded hmm??

              And 10 times more Oxycontin comes across than all prescriptions ever written for it …wow …I wonder where it goes eh..?
              I guess with the power of american pharmaceutical companies they can keep the border safer hahhaha…just by not talking about

              To those against this policy I understand your fear ….but just for one second imagine alcohol still illegal and all those you see every day that work legally in that business now.. didnt??
              And who would be doing the jobs if illegal and how much would they contribute to society and do you think anything about a “border” would affect that business in any way?

              I say the border will be fine except for all the refugees …..and brain draining immigration from our big brother to the south

              The real danger is all wanting to be canadian again isnt it?

              • Avatar of said on

                Hello again. I would like to just add that we are all discussing things right now and there’s too much “tension”. I am glad Shavluk is passionate; he does provide more facts than others. I have extracted some of his stats and have yet to find one in error. I think your frustrations spill over in your punctuation. I know when I try to type sarcastically and it never works :) Chris too has lots of facts and could come across in a very similar manner (if not careful). If Zach feels the border is a concern, I’m glad he brought it up. It does need to be considered. But I think a lot of Canadians are tired of being pushed around particularly the 4,000 + workers who lost their forestry jobs here in my home town while the conservatives sat on their asses and did nothing to protect it. So many of us think it’s only THEIR (U.S.A.) interests that are being preserved NOT OURS when it comes to border issues. I would expect many to say to hell with what they want for a change let’s put our priorities up front for a change. BUT I COULD BE WRONG! I’m only basing my opinion on “my little world” here within Canada :D
                So maybe Shav can use less punctuation, Chris can be less harsh as well, and Zach, seems to be sticking to what he’s thinking without any angst!. We are all on the same page (it’s a big page, but we’re on it together), we all have good ideas; we all CAN LEARN A THING OR TWO, I KNOW I HAVE. I must say I have learned from both Shav and Chris and I look forward to their comments. Zach, I am open to more learning :) I just checked and they do buy 74% of our exports! (Canada’s State of Trade: Trade and Investment Update 2011 -V. Key Developments in Canadian Merchandise Trade) So I think more discussion and facts are required? They could try to boycott our goods to get their way and we would/might give in anyway. So full address it and keep those facts for when they put together some sort of platform. For example what are we selling them exactly? Can we sell it elsewhere? Can they get it cheaper elsewhere? Are they willing to pay more elsewhere to boycott us?? Then again we’re going to have so much revenue from legal cannabis, we could just start buying up the northern states and work our way downward 

              • Avatar of said on

                @Shav @Chris and Zach too. Hello again. I would like to just add that we are all discussing things right now and there’s too much “tension”. I am glad Shavluk is passionate; he does provide more facts than others. I have extracted some of his stats and have yet to find one in error. I think your frustrations spill over in your punctuation. I know when I try to type sarcastically and it never works :) Chris too has lots of facts and could come across in a very similar manner (if not careful). If Zach feels the border is a concern, I’m glad he brought it up. It does need to be considered. But I think a lot of Canadians are tired of being pushed around particularly the 4,000 + workers who lost their forestry jobs here in my home town while the conservatives sat on their asses and did nothing to protect it. So many of us think it’s only THEIR (U.S.A.) interests that are being preserved NOT OURS when it comes to border issues. I would expect many to say to hell with what they want for a change let’s put our priorities up front for a change. BUT I COULD BE WRONG! I’m only basing my opinion on “my little world” here within Canada :D
                So maybe Shav can use less punctuation, Chris can be less harsh as well, and Zach, seems to be sticking to what he’s thinking without any angst!. We are all on the same page (it’s a big page, but we’re on it together), we all have good ideas; we all can LEARN A THING OR TWO, I KNOW I HAVE. I must say I have learned from both Shav and Chris and I look forward to their comments. Zach, I am open to more learning :) I just checked and they do buy 74% of our exports! (Canada’s State of Trade: Trade and Investment Update 2011 -V. Key Developments in Canadian Merchandise Trade) So I think more discussion and facts are required? They could try to boycott our goods to get their way and we would/might give in anyway. So full address it and keep those facts for when they put together some sort of platform. For example what are we selling them exactly? Can we sell it elsewhere? Can they get it cheaper elsewhere? Are they willing to pay more elsewhere to boycott us?? Then again we’re going to have so much revenue from legal cannabis, we could just start buying up the northern states and work our way downward :) Keep the exchanges lively AND CORDIAL!

              • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

                C’mon Shavluk, an attitude that you’re always right and everyone else is an idiot isn’t helpful to a discussion.

    • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

      With all due respect what I see from the current american election farce is simply a guarantee …..yes…that barac “bush” obama continues to be the puppet for wall street and no republican will stand a chance as they already have a right wing champion in power

      This is just a show…(speaking of shows watch “inside job” and know who is really in charge)

      Now with out blowing my cover or getting more writing me off (again with their own ignorance and knowing nothing of the subject in reality )

      I want to say obama has the same astrological chart as napoleon
      ( and his waterloo will be in 2015 goat revenge)
      Even the illusion of power will be enough to keep him in line and he will keep what ever he now thinks he has…not even a contest this time
      The election is irrelevant or it is fixed

      Now if Gary Johnson or Ron Paul was in romnys shoes maybe I would care but to any not really paying attention it looks to me like there wont even be a real election based on who the media is dictating to win the nomination

      romny winning would take more voting machines than jeb in florida has though hahhaha it will be educational for harper how they do it I am sure

      And as my colleague below says more americans than us actually want cannabis legal so to me this explains why there wont be a real republican as our masters can not have people awake… aware and questioning dying uselessly in one of their wealth recapturing oil wars…come on even the university of saskatchewan admitted openly if you can believe it that using cannabis makes subjects smarter
      I wondered how they got away with it

      No american government really wants that …come on

      No the election like harper with the pension silliness is merely a distraction

      ( up here some dont even realize they should have sold their house last year)

      Thanks for your comments but knowing how easy it really is to get out of the 1961 UN Treaty that everyone banters around at these times …(its merely a letter sent) I just want to ask…WILL YOU NOW HELP US…. NOW ….THAT THE LIBERALS HAVE FINALLY STEPPED OUT OF THE CLOSET ???

      We could and do spend days on why we maybe shouldnt and zero… nothing on how we should

      I am saying right here and right now that with at least 80 vacant ridings with no EDA and me knowing someone like me in all 308 of them that we are being silly ….over confident and like we have a sense of entitlement

      We as a majority and with this same resolution being approved many times over decades … have allowed by our silliness the party to go down the drain as we some how think some actually do not pay attention to our record

      As a majority we did nothing on this issue

      Show a sign …wake up !!…inject guidence and policy ideas and watch as an army rises up and stares down not only harper…… but even the american grey coats

      Who is with me on reclaiming our country by freeing the slaves and letting them actually help us be victorious ???

      Do you think we should wait til we are a majority again before we ever openly say we will free the slaves ?????????
      And please …which way will they fight….better??


      *** disclaimer…neither I nor anyone here speaks for the liberal party****

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        Yes, America has a large rich-poor gap, but it’s highly mobile. There is no real multi-generational wealth(aristocrats). Wall street, while rife with sheer corruption, is merely a vassal in which people with capital meet people with ideas. A corporation is a entity with many who own a share(and they elect a board to represent them, and the board appoints a CEO). Much like we elect MPs and the winning party appoints a prime minister. The biggest problem in the US is the non-enforcement of white collar crime.

        • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

          Bernie Madoff might disagree with you. He’s got a little over 147 years left on his sentence.

      • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

        Neither do I speak for the Liberal Party, but I’m hopeful that the 60,000 (and growing) of us can collectively get it right.

    • Avatar of said on

      They need us more than we need them. My small town already lost both it’s paper mills, since the conservatives decided not to protect forestry. We are noe importiong more than we are exporting to them….So I say to hell with them and their conservative ideas, there are others in the world we can trade with. Besides we may be able to enlighten them at the same tiem :)

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        in 2007, our annual trade with China equaled 8 days of trade in America.

        • Avatar of said on

          Here quote soem newer stats. And besides do you wnat to live as they (USA) tell us how to live? I mean they do it all over the world, but here too? No way!

          The 2010 Canada Year Book published by Statistics Canada indicates that:

          Driven by large decreases in exports of energy products and automotive products, Canada’s reliance on the United States as a trading partner declined from 75% of total trade (the sum of exports plus imports) in 2005 to 68% in 2009.
          For the first time [in decades], countries other than the United States accounted for more than 25% of Canada’s exports, up from 18% in 2005. This rise occurred despite exports to these countries declining in 2009. Similarly, the share of Canada’s imports from countries other than the United States rose from 33% in 2005 to 37% in 2009. This increase occurred even though imports from these countries fell for the first time in eight years.

      • Avatar of Zachary Mullin Zachary Mullin said on

        That is most certainly not true, they can get the resources form South America(for a little more yes). Less trade with America does not equate with more trade with others, it means less trade overall. With the rise of wireless technology and advances in recycling the market for paper has retracted harshly. That, combined with the fact that only Alberta has accomplished a fully sufficient lumber industry, has caused effects to this rather traditional industry.

        Whether or not cannabis is good or bad is another discussion, the legalization of cannabis at the expense of hundreds of thousands of jobs would be very destructive. As for America being a conservative bulwark. Whether or not you like US political thought does not change the fact that the US was founded on the principles of the European enlightenment. Canada was founded on the principle of the divine right of Kings.

        • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

          As I said in elections we already spend 3 billion tax dollars a year just subsidizing big oil so that americans can have 100% of what we produce and drive cheaper than us

          We dont even have a national energy policy and eastern canada imports from outside our own country (a pipe line to the east makes sense as our own country)(when the lights go out and michigan is lit and ont and quebec are out many will know what I know)

          This is a done deal though and in the end we will be walking while our masters can still drive tanks and airplanes

          And of course we are Indians (no disrespect) getting beads for mink stoles….whom do you kid?

          Our exporting bitumen is the biggest traitorous crime openly done in this country …it is not rocket science if any remove themselves from their self sustaining troughs and look around but some would be killed trying to stop or change it …and probably already have been

          In alberta (go see if you can even find out) the story goes they used to get about 8 cents on a barrel of oil @ 20 bucks a barrel
          And at a hundred or more now they get probably a half cent but see if you can tell me…please

          No representation with out taxation I say to my kids there ….so hence no peoples government in Alta

          I wish I could type….
          Norway with a duplicated un watered down alberta heritage fund is now the second richest country on earth with their meager oil fields
          And in Alta …hell ….I am ashamed of canadians and traitors actually

          Bottom line is yes of course its irrelevant …any trade ….without considering what we are trading with and only a fool would think we dont hold the upper hand

          Who wants to go down though in jet liner crash fighting this though?

          We are either going to be americans or chinese …or like me…dead trying to help

          I must go and thanks for the signs of life here

          Myself I am going to shut it down as a liberal I think until I see real action and try to stop just jumpin in with mere individuals and some what I consider moralistic unrealistic or uneducated views

          I dont want to be taken out of here as my passion erupts and I just say what I would say to peoples faces myself

          I realize I am an acquired taste as most cant handle truth

          I hope those of you I know are out there find $ 10 dollars or more …like some of us have and exercises one of the few remaining rights you have left and join ……and please …speak your minds

          Cheers all

          With any luck liberals themselves will wake up and we can actually make a difference but based on what I have seen and done….it may again be a waste of time

          I will be back if there are signs of life but our fight doesnt end because liberals found their guts again…14% more than the year before and 60,000 now face jail for possession of cannabis from last year I think they are much more important when I think about things like the Raheem Jaffer case as an example

          Or how about this one for some of you

          Isn’t that quaint ??

          HELLO LIBERAL PARTY !!!! NOW WHAT ????

          ***Disclaimer …shavluk like all here does not speak for the liberal party ************

      • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

        Um, that’s not quite accurate. Here is an excerpt from StatsCan regarding the balance of trade.

        “Canada’s trade surplus with the United States increased from $3.5 billion in October to $4.6 billion in November. Exports to the United States rose 1.9% to $28.6 billion, on the strength of energy products. Imports from the United States declined 2.0% to $24.0 billion, largely the result of lower imports of automotive products.”

    • Avatar of Christopher Braginetz Christopher Braginetz said on

      I just read this yesterday on Ekos Politics – here’s a excerpt:

      ‘The longer term tracking on attitudes to pot legalization in the United States shows the American public steadily warming to the idea of legalized marijuana.’

  50. Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

    In order for serious action on legalization/repeal to take place it should include a specific definition of what legalization entails, what models to consider, how regulation and taxation fit in, who the stakeholders are, and, most importantly, a national drug strategy with a robust harm reduction component must all be considered. All these areas would have to be addressed. Empowerment through education and harm reduction should be the core focus of a national drug strategy; moreover, it should be presented as a comprehensive entity that is seamless.

    • Avatar of Richard McNamara Richard McNamara said on

      SMART ON CRIME, This is not a simple thing and every thing you say is something to consider. That however is true on any policy the LPC comes up with.

      I’ve read somewhere that 85% of the crime in the country is related to drugs. That most of the money that the crime organizations make are from drugs. So we need to look at who has an interest in keeping the status quo:

      1) The Drug Importers
      2) The Manufacturers of Illegal Drugs
      3) The Criminal organizations that distribute the
      4) The local Crime Boss, and his front people.
      5) The people selling drugs on the street corners.
      6) The people selling drugs on our school grounds.

      You all know of these guys, but have you considered:

      7) The lawyers who defend the criminals in court.
      8) The lobbyists who are working the halls of
      government and justice.
      9) The police force, who receive funding based on the
      size of the Drug problem. The police have no
      interest at all in catching the the drug pushers
      and closing down their organizations.
      10) How about our prisons, without drug offenders they
      would have to close half of them.
      11) Judges, Crown Prosecutors, court personal etc.
      12) How about the whole drug enforcement system.

      The list just goes on and on: All these people have an interest in keeping the system as it is.

      So how do we stop it?

      To stop it you need to take the profit motive out of it.

      So how do we do this?

      Well let’s start by treating drug addiction as a disease (which it is) and giving the addicts prescriptions for their drugs. You then have a chance to reach these people and maybe turn their lives around, at the very least you take them off the street. Reducing street crime, break and entries, prostitution, muggings etc.

      Addicts would be getting cleaner drugs, and clean needles, reducing the costs to the health care system.

      This is complicated and start up is costly, no where near as costly as the crime it would replace, and the legal system the drug trade supports. Complicated yes, not as complicated as the system we are running now.

      Next step legalize recreational drugs, and sell them through government outlets. Costly start up but would very quickly pay the cost of the whole preventive system. Also, people would be getting cleaner drugs, and would be less likely to try street drugs.

      There would be very little reason for the development of new recreational drugs, (no money in it).

      There would be no one at our schools pushing drugs at our children.

      Our Police and court system could be refocused on other hard core crime problems.

      Over time, the number of addicted people would drop, but the big change would be people coming into the system from the hard drug side of things.

      There would no longer be a profit motive, at least not on any great scale.

      • Avatar of said on

        Very well thought out. I couldn’t agree more, the revenue stream from this one new commodity is more than just staggering and your points all expanded my thinking. Wouldn’t be nice to have a government that sould afford to do “everything” for it’s citizens, including educating them on the pros and cons of it’s use. And help those with serious hard drug problems (which would include alchohol). Thanks again Richard :)

  51. Avatar of Damon Trams Damon Trams said on

    If anyone here thinks America will jeopardize the economic relationship with the nation that supplies the bulk of its energy and yearly trade, they are dreaming.

    We need a Canadian government with a backbone, not a pull-string.

  52. Avatar of Wayne Phillips Wayne Phillips said on

    The argument goes that the Health Minister had the power to put any substance in the schedule he chose, but if that were the case, why did he go to such great lengths to not mention cannabis (why?) . . .and since he didn’t mention it by name, how did “there is a new drug in the schedule” become “cannabis”?

    THE PETER POT PAPER (, Panic and Indifference (, and the 2002 Senate Report on Cannabis (pg 256-257 Volume II: Part III) .

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  55. Avatar of Michael Eva Michael Eva said on

    Liberal’s will have my full support if they keep fighting to end this pointless fight against a harmless substance that has the potential to only do good. LEGALIZE IT!!!

  56. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    I must point out that for 5 or 6 days I have attempted to post here and have been blocked

    I have posted what was said else where and would put the link if I was not worried about this also being censored …in fact I am not even sure this one will make it public here
    (all in my groups may see this direct but may not on the liberal resolution site….please go check and advise)

    Now without going into details here I will just say that what if all those who had ever tried cannabis were like with other crimes not just allowed to get away with it because they were not caught? hmmm?

    I don’t want the discussion to just end here and am not like some other liberals who dont believe we can effect this issue from a 3rd place position …on the contrary I believe we can build a huge party very soon if we make the right moves right now

    I know I as a liberal would destroy any other party’s candidates in any debates with this issue alone and our other policies we have and hope whom ever is lucky enough to represent us in jack laytons riding bi-election uses this issue to win it !!
    I am saddened the party does not seem to see the power in this resolution nor the amount of people who would vote for it
    Nor does it see for example how many of you just joined to speak to this issue here

    I have said obviously too much here already and am as I say now censored

    I have offered to post the videos I did at the convention of certain individuals to help speed our growth in the party
    The individual involved expressed fears of me doing that as without seeing them of course they are worried about possible damage to our party
    This will be discussed and posted here if allowed and if done

    But I want to say good bye I guess if I am taken out because of fears as to what I may say here and I thank you all…all you others for trying to help here and for what you will do in the party to help us

    I for one wish we can take the Toronto seat and I know so many of you there who worked to elect layton who in reality are now liberals if only the party says what needs saying…NOW

    I believe we could win that seat !!

    Please… whom ever allows postings here please let this last one to make it to the page as it is relevant to my and our groups efforts

    Cheers all

    • Avatar of André Brisebois André Brisebois said on

      Hi Shavluk,
      I’m unable to find a record of your attempts to post comments in the past 5 or 6 days so I will see with IT and will connect with you directly to investigate this. All I can say is that this latest post of yours is public.

      • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

        That’s pretty funny Andre

        And no I will not now just take the bait as you wont let me post it again.
        Whom are we kidding?
        I am talking about the posts you and I have talked about for 6 days …yes of course!

        We will just leave it as only my own groups I guess knowing the truth and as most here are also my friends I will as I say just leave it at that

        I will send that post and what I wanted to say directly to those individuals personally
        They are not hard to find…certainly not for me any way

        But I do want to stress here that yes Toronto Danforth could be ours for the taking as many many of what were that ridings ndp supporters are actually even reading here and were instrumental in laytons wins

        With out jack its a whole new game and no riding in canada has more cannabis people than this riding..I KNOW..not even here in vancouver centre

        30 to 40 thousand meet up and march every May (Million Marijuana March) and I know many of them personally and know what they blindly with hope did for jack

        And as previous ndp executive myself I know how many times jack strung them along with things like “wait til we win” and some other such stupid nonsense

        I do not believe it will be as easy to take the seat for them unless we of course as liberals just sit as cowards on this issue

        Hell I will even donate to that riding or run myself even to prove it

        Any way with out getting into more trouble here how about I just say thank you Andre

        Even though I and others who have seen my emails just chuckle knowing its just the fear or hypocritical nature of the beast and hey we have seen it all before don’t forget

        We have of course seen it before and still re elected layton for example but to do so for liberals would take a little guts first from liberal leaders if any get any of this at all

        I think its silly to just give this seat back to the ndp blindly because we are afraid to even use the same lies they did

        To you others not in my position here please continue to try to educate and add and please take heart that what we want may still come to pass

        As usual though I am deemed expendable as I say too much

        We all belong to an organization called the Cannabis Party even though it doesn’t formally exist…and with all due respect we would love to say it was replaced by the liberal party and yes we are hopeful but we are also now not as blind as we once were,,,simply to be hopeful

        No party will ever get my vote again unless they openly stand for re legalized cannabis ….Period


  57. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Ok its all straightened out….I believe

    And I dont want to just leave it with that post on top here…


    Lets maybe remember here that some like this fellow below will never ever see a jail cell

    But that 60,000 canadian citizens are right now going through it … just from last years crop !

    Mostly teenagers !
    Those with $20,000 dollars will get another chance but also be easy marks as police like anyone else are lazy and will go with who they know already

    You ever hear “”Known to police”" …? yeah I thought so

    “” Michael Buble: I never wrote a song without marijuana “”"


    How many others are chosen people and have also got away with something others I know…. did 7 years in JAIL for ONE JOINT or for the same thing

    All those who have ever tried cannabis are as guilty as anyone else actually caught and should be the first to know and say no one should be destroyed for its use

    We need hypocrites to find their guts

    Again I thank you all but also ask that we now start posting and calling for signs of this policy being integrated into liberal policy so that we can then start to show them what we do and have done

    Please send a note to HQ or and Bob Rae and the Council

    Every last one of the potential Leadership Candidates needs to be grilled on their stance on our being free and equal citizens in this country

    Because we see this…..EVERY DAY !!!

    “” Recording The Police is a Dangerous but Necessary Thing to Do “”

    Police will tell anyone “”they only bust one in 10 or 20 people they catch “”

    How many have ever heard this statement?

    Well please remember this that what they are saying is that THEY THEMSELVES have by that admission broken their oath and more importantly probably broken the law…have they not?
    Not one of them can promote themselves to being a Judge !!

    And had they not illegally “pretended” to be judges it would be 600,000 to 1.2 million people now waiting for jail from last years persecuted crop

    And any educated person knows that if ever 1.2 million people were actually waiting for what I have already gone through…. this FARCE would end much much much FASTER !!

    Imagine if just all those who had ever tried cannabis all went to the police station ….the same day and turned themselves in !!

    Please do what ever any of you can to reach those in charge of the liberal policy agenda and please help us to help them to help us all

    And nothing stops anyone from saying anything here to help !!


  58. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Some mention schizophrenia

    I hope those of you who may think cannabis has something to do with that reads this

    “”"The psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey agrees—though he came to this viewpoint from a completely different angle than either Webster or Flegr. His opinion stems from decades of research into the root causes of schizophrenia. “Textbooks today still make silly statements that schizophrenia has always been around, it’s about the same incidence all over the world, and it’s existed since time immemorial,” he says. “The epidemiology literature contradicts that completely.” In fact, he says, schizophrenia did not rise in prevalence until the latter half of the 18th century, when for the first time people in Paris and London started keeping cats as pets. The so-called cat craze began among “poets and left-wing avant-garde Greenwich Village types,” says Torrey, but the trend spread rapidly—and coinciding with that development, the incidence of schizophrenia soared.

    Since the 1950s, he notes, about 70 epidemiology studies have explored a link between schizophrenia and T. gondii. When he and his colleague Robert Yolken, a neurovirologist at Johns Hopkins University, surveyed a subset of these papers that met rigorous scientific standards, their conclusion complemented the Prague group’s discovery that schizophrenic patients with Toxo are missing gray matter in their brains. Torrey and Yolken found that the mental illness is two to three times as common in people who have the parasite as in controls from the same region.

    Human-genome studies, both scientists believe, are also in keeping with that finding—and might explain why schizophrenia runs in families. The most replicated result from that line of investigation, they say, suggests that the genes most commonly associated with schizophrenia relate to the immune system and how it reacts to infectious agents. So in many cases where the disease appears to be hereditary, they theorize, what may in fact be passed down is an aberrant or deficient immune response to invaders like T. gondii.

    Epstein-Barr virus, mumps, rubella, and other infectious agents, they point out, have also been linked to schizophrenia—and there are probably more as yet unidentified triggers, including many that have nothing to do with pathogens. But for now, they say, Toxo remains the strongest environmental factor implicated in the disorder. “If I had to guess,” says Torrey, “I’d say 75 percent of cases of schizophrenia are associated with infectious agents, and Toxo would be involved in a significant subset of those.”

    Just as worrisome, says Torrey, the parasite may also increase the risk of suicide. In a 2011 study of 20 European countries, the national suicide rate among women increased in direct proportion to the prevalence of the latent Toxo infection in each nation’s female population. According to Teodor Postolache, a psychiatrist and the director of the Mood and Anxiety Program at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, a flurry of other studies, several conducted by his own team, offers further support of T. gondii’s link to higher rates of suicidal behavior. These include investigations of general populations as well as groups made up of patients with bipolar disorder, severe depression, and schizophrenia, and in places as diverse as Turkey, Germany, and the Baltimore/Washington area. Exactly how the parasite may push vulnerable people over the edge is yet to be determined. Postolache theorizes that what disrupts mood and the ability to control violent impulses may not be the organism per se, but rather neurochemical changes associated with the body’s immune response to it. “As far-fetched as these ideas may sound,” says Postolache, “the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention was willing to put money behind this research.”

    GIVEN ALL THE nasty science swirling around this parasite, is it time for cat lovers to switch their allegiance to other animals?”"”

    See the link for much much more please

    And one more thing

    A 58 year old Heart Surgeon…we obviously dont need any extra of his calibre is that it ????

    What stupidity what a crime this disgusts me !!!

    Land of the Free..??? sure !!!!!!!!!!!

    Free to destroy and rape and seize you mean !!!!!

    Cannabis: God’s Medicine

    “”"I write this from a prison bed (rack) in Mississippi. I am a prisoner of war. I am a retired cardiac surgeon who has never been arrested in all my 58 years on earth. I am a prisoner of a failed yet highly functional drug war on our citizens. The reasons for this war are not clear, nor are the reason…”"”(see link for more please)

    I just thought these were important to educate liberals


  59. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    On March 1st join David Bratzer, David Kennedy, Chris Fibiger and Dr Evan Wood in Kelowna for a panel discussion on the link between marijuana prohibition and organized

    Stop the Violence BC (STVBC) is bringing together a panel comprising law enforcement members and public health officials to discuss the link between cannabis prohibition and organized crime.

    Kelowna was recently ranked by Maclean’s as the 7th-most dangerous city in Canada. The city was joined by three other BC municipalities in the top-10, the result of gang activity in these communities. The central question the panel will address is: “Does Canadian drug policy make our communities less safe?” STVBC coalition members appearing on the panel include:

    • Dr. Evan Wood, co-director of the Urban Health Research Initiative at the BC Centre for Excellence in HIV AIDS
    • David Bratzer, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition member and off-duty police officer from Victoria
    • David Kennedy, retired physician
    • Chris Fibiger, professor emeritus at UBC

    For more information, please visit

  60. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    Spain has changed there laws. i wonder if it’s because
    of what Dr.Guzman of Madrid and his crew have discovered
    about cannabis. and there politicians listen to scientific
    facts and not out dated opinions ? no way ;p
    Dr.Guzman ,, well here’s his web site

    so cannabinoids in cannabis kill cancer.
    that’s his findings.well there’s allot more
    but I’ll leave it at that.

    Health Canada has never herd of the endo cannabinoid system ?
    it been known about for 10 years now. are they holding back
    information ?

  61. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    Health Canada
    and a study group of politicians and various professionals
    should do an investigation into dr.Guzman’s research.
    If the liberal party of Canada emailed him,,,,
    i’m sure he would respond ;p

    besides being another weapon for legalization
    it has the possibility of major health benefits

    the 3 i suggest to investigate are
    1 dr.guzman Spain
    2; dr.Robert melamede Colorado
    3 dr.Raphael Mechoulam Israel

  62. Avatar of said on

    OK so this is a topic the public wants addressed. What are the liberals going to do? Wait 2 more years and allow 60,000 more arrests for possession to get sentenced, another 20,000 for trafficking. So another 160,000 Canadians can be charged for pot or selling pot AND SENT TO JAIL, when we all agree it should not be a crime. Meanwhile we all sit here saying “yep somebody ought to do something”. So if the liberals are PUBLIC SERVANTS; they should be poised to do public service, right? So if they plan to use this topic to help them in the next election they’RE AGENDA IS SELF SERVICE not PUBLIC SERVICE and are just another politcial party who wants “power” more than just governance. I say bring it up in the house, get the country talking and force the conservatives to address this NOW! Not after another 160,000 Canadians who are eligible voters are jailed! So what’s the Liberals REAL STAND ON THIS TOPIC? A) or B) where A)=So legalize pot, but only if it’s in the best interest of the Liberal Party of Canada? Cause we can regain power and rule absolutely! Leaving thousands to rot in jail or get criminal records, because it’s of no advantage to them right now? OR B)= Address it now because there is enough public interest, regardless of who is in power and try to run the government and give up on the fight for power for a while! In other words “serve the public” not “the Party”. Get a motion/bill started launched whatever the hell you folks do with our tax dollars, do it now! Politics has evolved into a struggle for power and nothing else, the public only matters if they’re bitching about something. I do suspect they are all the same and if they use this as a “tool to their own benefit” then I am right and there is no political party in Canada that is any different from the others. They are all out for themselves and the friends that got them into power and things will never change. Maybe get rid of politicians and just hire folks to do the jobs (you know the jobs where people actually work and accomplish stuff on a daily basis). They get reviewed and fired if they aren’t performing  I like it, no more bullshit back and forth, spin won’t matter either; hell we’d never have to listen to another one ever again. PLEASE DO PROVE ME WRONG AND MAKE A MOVE ON IT, I DARE YOU!

  63. Avatar of Gavin Markowski Gavin Markowski said on

    As they mentioned already; it’s been almost a century since the beginning of marijuana prohibition. The facts and numbers show that it doesn’t work, exactly the same thing with alcohol. Another fact, marijuana alone does not affect people the same way as liquor. Under regulation by the government, marijuana will prove to everyone to be able to be sustained safely within a society, just as it has in Amsterdam.

    Legalize Marijuana!

  64. Avatar of said on

    If it’s not done right this poplicy “as written” would only make matters worse, Much worse becasue we would have the “gov’t dealer” competeing in a market against teh “illegal dealer” so he could just have that guy put in jail and eliminate the competition and form their on monopoly on weed. So anything short of it being completely legal sold in any store and policed by existing laws that protect consumers against glass in babay food, poisonous dog food, hell Maple Leaf killed 20 poeple but were stopped. I’ll bet we already have law in place that could apply to a “weed store” and they are force to put the cosumer ahead of thier own needs and prfoti margins. Just like the consumer protect laws we already have. So no need to complete another library full of laws, just allow society the “just society” I dream of to take care of itself. True Liberlas know wher the phrase “just society” came from LOL

  65. Avatar of Brian Bugden Brian Bugden said on

    I no longer wish to be treated as a criminal. When I open my mouth all that is heard are the ramblings of a twisted user. When I speak of the benefits in health and wellness you only see a person who is out for themselves. When I voice my opinions of the recreational uses I am told to goto a bar and to lay of the drugs… When I tell people of the needless violence that has occured as a result of the laws, I am called a liar. When I let the public know of lives that could be saved through the alteration of our rights, I am told not to spread slander. It has been said that I do not teach, I only corrupt.
    Change does not come easy, it is not going to happen over night. People can become scared of what change might bring. It is only through education that our country will truly acknowledge what it is you are trying to do, why it is neccessary for it to happen, and what they need to do to be prepared.
    According to my findings it seems to be that the want/need for legalization or decriminalization is strong. What we the people need is your support, because without it we are just seen as a bunch of missguided individuals, alot of which whom are toscared to speak up publicly for fear of repercussion, not just from our government but from our communities and our jobs as well.
    You now know how I feel, and I know I do not stand alone.

    So I would like to ask,
    “What can we do to help you, so that can help us?”

    Thank you for your time.

    • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

      thank you for wording it so perfectly

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  67. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Ok ….the bi-election will soon be over and it will be too late to say it again and again and again

    Is anyone listening here from the real liberal party??

    Do you have maybe even just enough time before the bi-election to look at one even?…Maybe even the first 15 minute video ??

    What is point by being afraid of one of your best weapons?

    Politicians for Prohibition
    are also for persecution terrorism greed corruption and graft

    The drug war against canadian citizens with their own tax dollars …is obscene and in the future those who did nothing will in the end look no different than slave traders and facilitators

    Please watch at least one video and maybe decide we can win this bi-election by standing up as the sane rational party that will emerge at some point have no doubt

    Its a shame it couldn’t have been used to take not only an ndp riding but jack laytons own riding
    For it to be over the cannabis issue…makes incredible sense !!


    Is anyone here actually listening ????

    • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

      I’m listening ;p
      this documentary almost starts to get into the endocannabinoid system
      dr mechoulam is in a fair amount of vid on you tube.len richmonds film “what if cannabis cures cancer” is a must see – 45min long
      he interviews most of the experts on the topic,he’s also on face book ;p

      while researching the endocannabinoid system
      as an alt to treat my t2 diabetes
      i set up a page on my site for others to view

      there’s hours of embedded video on the topic.

      • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

        as it turns out,, the vid’s i had up on my page were third
        party vid and were removed ;p lol so i have to redo the page sorry

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  69. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    Liberal MPs are set to give the Conservative government help tonight in passing tough drug-crime legislation, despite the risk of a backlash at the party grassroots.

    is this true ?
    i hope it’s not

    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

      I too would have blue flames coming out my arse…. if this were true…

      What makes you say/think that the Liberal party would support Bill C-10 in any way shape or form?

      Please let us know if you have something that would show us this…

      Bill C-10 is the most back-ass, regressive bill the Cons have ever put forth!! period!

      Please Peter… let us know if you know something


      • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

        Michael i just read it somewhere and i don’t remember where,as i have been
        on every news site in the last few days reading. i copied and pasted that remark from somewhere. i can not confirm where i read that. will look tonight through my browser history. it may of been someones comment.

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      Well Peter, if it is, they should be prepared to get even less seats next election. I am a long time Liberal, particularly with my provincial riding, but I will not hesitate to vote NDP or Green if I decide that further decimation of the Federal Liberal Party is what’s necessary for them to rise from the ashes as a worthy representative of social justice in Canada.

  70. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Of course they will vote but it obviously will be with the ndp and against the bill as far as I know

    Still their vote is irrelevant in a majority government of conservative cowards and cow toe-ers

    I am thinking you got confused about the vote ?

    If they were to stupidly support it of course they would be idiots and soon more irrelevant

    But based on their fear with the cannabis issue in the by election in the riding with the most cannabis using Canadian voters I would still think anything the liberals do is soon irrelevant ….no??

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      fter taking up more than three hours of debate by reiterating his party’s opposition to the omnibus crime bill, NDP MP Jack Harris proposed a motion to reject the Senate amendments. The Conservatives were able to defeat the motion and pass the bill by a vote of 154-129.

      I haven’t done the math but it looks like most MP’s other than the Conservatives, voted against it.

      • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

        Hi Frank,

        >I haven’t done the math but it looks like most MP’s other than the >Conservatives, voted against it.

        I would be very disappointed to hear any Liberal ever backed C-10 in any way shape or form.. its bad.

        Poor Canada.

        • Avatar of André Brisebois André Brisebois said on

          Hello Michael,
          I can confirm that all liberal MP’s in the house last night voted against bill C-10.

          • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

            well 307 MP’s yet only 283 votes on C-10… 24 less
            I wonder who did not vote… and were they Cons… if so did they abstain
            because they could not stomach this regressive bill..

            If so we need to work on these folks, might be a chink in King Steph’s armour..

            So far.. hes seems “untouchable”… this must be extremely frustrating
            for you guys in the HOC … cause its driving me nuts

            • Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

              Hi Michael

              11 Cons must have missed the vote

              its 165 mps for them

              101 ndp
              35 liberal
              4 bloc
              1 vacant – layton
              1 independent
              1 green

              a total of 308 and soon bigger

              but the bloc and the green would be on our side so we need to find out which cons (11) did not vote

              all of them must be targeted any way and to do this one has to become involved

              sadly though the liberals are too afraid to do any thing and it remains to be seen if they will

              the by election non effort has done more to kill liberal support than anything recent

              oh well what can you do?

              lots I say
              any that would like to help register the Common Sense Party please contact us


          • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

            merci andre’

        • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

          thanks for looking into this while i took a nap ;p
          it looks like they didn’t by stats.
          I was in shock when i saw the statement.
          i wanted to ask the liberals .
          if it was true.

  71. Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

    i found len richmonds film ‘what if cannabis cures cancer’ film
    on you tube.

    • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

      this works on diabetes.

  72. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Tomorrow, March 15th, Victoria City Council Governance and Planning Committee will be discussing a motion on cannabis regulation.

    Send an email to Council

    Stop the Violence BC


    • Avatar of Peter Germain Peter Germain said on

      this is what ben had to say on face book today.
      Tried and failed to save the City from bankruptcy on the new Johnson Street Bridge project. But in other news, Council voted unanimously in favour of a motion I presented to regulate and tax marijuana. So maybe we will be able to pay off the bridge after all ;)

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  76. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Lost the by election as predicted again we are too afraid of the sane answers and afraid to use resolutions 77 % approved at 10 AM in the morning !!!!

    With most delegates still sleeping
    The oldest approved this …not kids

    Mexican Drug Lord Officially Thanks American Lawmakers for Keeping Drugs Illegal

    Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman Loera reported head of the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico, ranked 701st on Forbes’ yearly report of the wealthiest men alive, and worth an estimated $1 billion, today officially thanked United States politicians for making sure that drugs remain illegal. According to one of his closest confidants, he said, “I couldn’t have gotten so stinking rich without George Bush, George Bush Jr., Ronald Reagan, even El Presidente Obama, none of them have the cajones to stand up to all the big money that wants to keep this stuff illegal. From the bottom of my heart, I want to say, Gracias amigos, I owe my whole empire to you.”

    See the link for more


  77. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Connecticut is about to become the latest state to legalize the sale of medical marijuana. After ten hours of debate, the Connecticut senate passed a bill with a vote of 21-13 early Saturday morning that would legalize the sale of medical marijuana. Once Governor Dannel Malloy signs the bill, which he is expected to do, they will become the seventeenth state (plus the District of Colombia) to legalize the selling of prescription weed.

  78. Avatar of Robert Collett Robert Collett said on

    … with respect and kindly I say the following: (and anyone else here who has no idea of what they speak or type.) …Ok, if I may ( quietly) weigh in on all this. There are many Govt sponsored studies that show ( ’prove’ if you accept their work) -mostly in the US and Europe ( They spend the money do do real and valid study, as opposed to Canada, eh) – Not only does Hemp NOT show ANY evidence of contributing to lung cancer i Fact the latest studies show unequivacably that it Does Not.…It in fact can load THC and CBDs onto the receptors in lung cancer cells and mate with our bodys’ own Endocannabinoid System. It, then, ’can’ and ’has switched the light off inside cancerous cells…which have morphed into immortal cells from ’normal’ cells which have an approximate 50 time renewal period. Those cancer cells, through simple process called Mitosis, keep cloning and taking the space of normal cells….They don’t perform the normal and needed functions anymore….so eventually you have –Killing Fields.

    There is something amazing in THC and CBD and the other CB’s that win the day. By treating the entire body ( where they can search and destroy hidden cancer cells in any organ -including the brain, skin etc. This is not ‘hoofla’. This has been proven even in Government Labs around the world – most notably recently, in Spain ( Brain Cancer Apoptosis or killing of the cancer cells) Lung Cancer, Breast Cancer, Uteran cancer and Liver and Pancreatic cancers…just to list a few of 250 ’syndromes’ out there. If you Google ’Phoenix Tears’ you’ll discover the true story of a Canadian from Nova Scotia that has been trying to get this word out to normal people being lied to ( Literally) by the pharmaceutical industry ( go figure) . If you Google Tinkan Olum, in Israel, you’ll find leading edge work there…and in every other country with any balls today. US proven lab results date back to 1974 proving what you are not believing and are afraid of. You have been mislead ( don’t beat yourself up – it’s Their fault…not yours. ) That will change. Hearsay? No! I am 60. I am not a pot head….never have been. I have STAGE III lung cancer. I have a license to provide ’my own medicine’ by Health Canada and a learned MD, my doctor in this case in Ontario. My ’options’ were, because of stage’ get my affairs in order – maybe 6 months at best ( 9 months ago) Today I walked alongside my daughter who for the second year in a row is walking from Peterborough to the steps of the Ontario Legislature to present a petition to completely END this farce and lies -which line the pockets of Legal Drug Dealers – with BAD DRUGS literally -and ensures both the Belief and the Fact of accepting our own death in the process. She walks 141 Kilometers over 4 days and will be met with the Ontario Health Ministry of Ontario – and Jeff Leal, MPP Liberal Whip /Ontario.’s office. She walks to represent all those too ill, too aged, too scared, to bludgeoned and lied to by the well funded System. I drove 2 1/2 hours to walk along her side this morning as she began her pilgrimage to Toronto. She Made is all the way to Highway 35 today, about 35 miles, approximately. Jennifer does this with the support of her entire family of 6. Her 2 teenaged daughters take turns walking at her side – or trying to keep up. She has to stop every 4 hours and ’nurse’ her 10 week old baby boy Fintan Hunter DeCarlo. Jennifer has FibroMyalgia and lower back pain which she lives with 24/7/365. Her only pain reliever is her hemp. She is, in fact, a health care provider by career, herself – helping others every day. I made it 15 kms, myself…I was whacked at the end…slept all the way back home in the car.
    Please do more research. The information is there and it is 100% accurate. Become more knowledgeable and you can help those you love. Just Cancer alone will now touch every other man ( 1 in 2) and every third wife, mother, daughter and female friend and colleague you love in your life. None of this is Arguable. It’s life, death and pain relief for all of us. Please…enough bullshit. I live the fact…..and I intend to live to 120 -if at all possible. With Hemp Medicine it is entirely feasible. to me anyway. I’d be happy to forward more proven research than anyone can read in a week’s time. It’s all there -and it’s ALL true. It’s the detractors that have no idea how wrong they are – and damaging to good people.

  79. Avatar of Alexandru Vitez Alexandru Vitez said on

    Legalize it

  80. Avatar of jarrod coolen jarrod coolen said on

    Wheter you support legalization or not the fact of the matter is peopel use marijuana, and is long as there a demand for it there will always be a supply. I personaly use marijuana but i dont consume alchohol or tobacco, i believe that they are far to damaging to my health and i just dont enjoy them though i have used them both in the past. Despite the fact that i dont use alchohol i still respect that rights of other people to do so, it is not for me to determine what others enjoy.

    Marijuana is out there and currently all the profits go to organized crime. It is much easier for underage people to acquire marijuana then it is to acquire alchohol or tobacco, and this is mainly becuase drug dealers dont ask for ID. Regulation is the only way to control marijuana sales and to reduce the profits it brings to orginized crime. Decriminalizign it is not enough because we are left with essentialy the same problems full prohibition brings, a demand that can only be met by criminals.

    Making marijuana legal for sale makes the users safer, our kids safer and takes money out of the pockets of organized crime. Wheter it becomes legal or not the issue is not going away and the sooner it becomes legal the better. Money spent on enforcing failed laws can then be spent on addiction treatment and education programs. Wheter you personaly smoke marijuana or not isnt relevant, continuing prohibition on it is a failed policy that does more harm then good.

    The time for legalization and regulation is now

    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on


      Very good post. I was just reading an article on the problems in Mexico. It postulated a that the problems are incubated by not having ‘state capacity’, the ability to provide adequate social services to the most deprived in the country. The US funded ‘War on Drugs’ has created an opportunity for the deprived to make money in the illegal drug market. Together, they are destroying a Country.

      While our problems aren’t nearly as serious, we do have them on a smaller scale. The answer seems obvious. Provide what is necessary for the poor to have a reasonable quality of life that would discourage them from turning to crime. Then, remove the prohibition on drugs and channel the money currently spent on enforcement and incarceration to prevention, education and treatment.

      Unfortunately there is a segment of society which believes in crime and punishment and they vote conservative. Let’s educate them that there is a better way, and provide them with the bold alternative.

  81. Avatar of Shannon Harrington Shannon Harrington said on

    i support legalization of pot and have switched from a conservative to a liberal over this issue, thank you liberal party for having the balls to stand up for fairness and equality, rather then opting for decriminalization and trying to please everyone while doing nothing like the ndp, at least both you and the conservatives can pick a side, and i respect that over wishy washy policies like the ndp!

  82. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    decriminalize, review and study and public forums, then put it to a national referendum. of course, we can only achieve this if we are the governing party, so it might be risky and lack the fundamental support of the middle-of-the-road voter, if this becomes part of the LPC platform leading into an election. There are so many ramifications…some good, some not so good. Let’s get elected first.

  83. Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

    Sorry Peter, that isn’t the right way to go. Decriminalization is wrong and the attitude of “let’s get elected first” will result in similar results to the last couple of elections.

    How about confirming that party policy is to legalize and knowing that having that policy, and other great policies will get liberals elected.

    • Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

      I agree with you Frank Mills, it is a policy that needs to addressed now & heaven forbid the new LPC leader does a Mulcair on the issue.

      On the NDP’s own “End Prohibition” site, each candidate for the leadership was asked their view on this issue & it was posted on the site. Prior to winning the leadership Mulcair was in “favour” … only to make the absurd comment three days later that today’s cannabis causes brain damage & he was rethinking it.
      This caused him & the party to lose a great deal of credibility in the cannabis community, of course it will cost them votes.

      I have asked two candidates for the LPC leader their stance on this issue, one in person & one on Twitter. For the record Deborah Coyne is in favour of Res. 117 to which I applaud her courage. Justin Trudeau I asked in person in Vernon… he was non committal, threw out the “American” argument… which we now see is dead one… after I-502 passed in Washington state… Justin needs some work tho… just sayin Justin :-)
      I intend to get a firm answer from all LPC leader candidates… as they jump in.

    • Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

      everyone’s entitled frank. i think there are far more important and less controversial proposals to get us elected. after all, a party is nothing until it is elected, and we’re only 3rd party status as is.

  84. Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

    That’s the great thing about democracy, we are all entitled to our opinions. Unfortunately the opinion of most voters in the last election was that the liberal platform was not worth voting for.

    • Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

      do you really think it was the liberal platform that caused the downfall in the last election? i think it was more the lack of credibility of the leader and his big red tent, and, of course, the magic of jack layton who certainly never discussed the legalization of cannabis. unfortunately, michael ignatief whom i admire appeared as awkward to voters as mitt romney did to usa voters, and his advisors who wanted him to project something he wasn’t shouldn’t be around to advise our next leader. i do agree however that the new leader should be perfectly clear and comfortable explaining the ramifications of this policy, especially when we know it will be controversial and a major departure from former platforms.

      • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

        Of course it was the platform. If you think we can crown Justin Trudeau and get a liberal majority with another bad platform, then you are going to be very disappointed. Jack Layton wasn’t magic. He’d been around as a waffler since his days on Toronto council, and a lot of people including myself were not impressed. Mulcair is going to be every bit as good a magician as Jack was.

        It isn’t just about legalizing cannabis, even a commitment to legalize cannabis isn’t just about legalizing cannabis, it is about a broader commitment to individual rights and to doing what is best for the people despite pressure from big pharma and the legal system that are making a lot of money or are dependent on their jobs, from cannabis being illegal. It is one pillar of a broader platform that most Canadians will vote for.

  85. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    Broader, well-considered, platforms are always commendable, in direct contrast to the Harper C’s. But I personally think that was not the LPC undoing in the last election: Organisation, articulation, and lack of grassroots effort to get the vote out are just as, or perhaps even more, important. A lot is on the line for the LPC. One more major loss and it will have to be “unite the left”. And I do agree that Mulcair is a force to be reckoned with. Individual rights within collective rights was the basis for Trudeau’s Charter. But I hope you’re right and we are successful.

  86. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on
    • Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

      Not what the members voted for, nor what my riding association voted for, which makes one think that Justin will have his own agenda, beyond what the party thinks he should do. Well there is always Deborah Coyne.

  87. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Unfortunately that is so 1980,s …..the wrong policy …doesnt do anything to solve the problem….and certainly not what 77 % of members voted for at 10 am sunday morning in ottawa jan 15 2012

    So I wouldnt get too excited

    Of course he can be coaxed out of the hypocritical closet further I do believe as some one must ask him how much he has smoked and when was the last time he did

    Then maybe he will see the whole picture

  88. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    Justin is a politician, and wants to lead the LPC to victory. Deborah has no chance of even becoming the leader. I think his decriminalize first and get into power to promote legalization is the safer route to victory. Why open up the LPC to ridicule from the conservative minds of the PCs and all those who voted for them (he did gain a majority afterall). It’s like a hail-mary pass, that the LPC really doesn’t need at this point: all or nothing.

    And John, what people experimented with in high school or university is really irrelevant. Taking acid, in the closet, was not considered hypocritical, it was peer culture and something most adults don’t continue to do or advocate for its legalization.

  89. Avatar of John Shavluk John Shavluk said on

    Again what you think isnt what was approved

    And why do you think just-in was in high school 7 or 8 years ago?

    No its time for putting up or shutting up and those who are on side with the membership will be propped up and those against destroyed some how

    Video and audio you tubes etc must be deployed

    I can say that if no one does it or if just-in wins and vetos etc I will say I dont think the liberals will do much better than they have especially with what we have got going now within the ndp

    mulcareless is also being educated and the right words will send an army his way instead if need be

    In any event its still unfolding …all I know is my teams are ready and will work for or against whom ever needs it

    How many people on your teams??…on ours we number thousands and are actually organized to make some fail

    And in closing I dont know about any acid use by just-in and doubt it but he did smoke with us out here in bc and was no high school student

    One way or another I can promise you all will be exposed at some point unless it doesnt need to be


  90. Avatar of Frank Mills Frank Mills said on

    Well now we know why some on here were touting decriminalization. It was the lead in to Justin’s announcement. A big concern here is that Justin is now setting his own policy instead of following party policy. It’s perfectly alright to have one’s own ideas, but unfortunately when the majority of the party and the voters feel that legalization is the preferable choice, it does pose problems.

    As for worrying about ridicule from Conservatives, my feeling is that if we have policies that Conservatives unjustly ridicule, we are heading in the right direction.

  91. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    My team is one, apparently, but I’m tougher than I look ;)

    I do enjoy your sense of humour John…mulcareless…and good luck to you.

  92. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Here is a Tweet from Joyce Murray on Res 117 …. or at least
    her view in the issue…..
    One more candidate on board

    @joycemurray: Let’s be real –
    #Legalize, control and tax #cannabis is the
    way to go to make streets safer and protect kids.

    Still waiting on Findlay to answer….

  93. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    I have asked Martha Hall Findlay three times now, over a three day period her position on this resolution… she could not be bothered to respond.

    So much for the “open” Liberal Party…

    Although both Deborah Coyne & Joyce Murray both took the time to respond personally… which I appreciated.

    I will try asking her directly in an email… wonder what it is…
    Am I not worthy? or is she is not going to back this res?

  94. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Okay… after asking Martha Hall Findlay 4 times on Twitter her stance on 117 …she still had not got back to me… so I proceeded to poke the bear and went on her FB page to ask her… well with a little chiding she FINALLY gave me an answer….

    “@MHallFindlay – 4th time asking – I would like to know, do u support Res. 117? I am polite when asking, why no reply?

    “@MHallFindlay –> Sorry for the delay – been really busy. I voted for it at the Conv. I have had the same view for years.”

    Well that’s that… 3 declared candidates & 1 yet to declare(Joyce Murray) have said they support Res 117… sorta – I think the “legalize” versus “decriminalize” issue is unclear in the Liberal party itself.

  95. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    imo decriminalization is the safest policy politically. legalization is either a big winner or a big loser for the LPC at election time. The front runner, JT, favours decrim and thinks legalization is something that is interesting to investigate further. i wouldn’t vote for the leader based on his/her declarations, as they are seasoned politicians who will change one way or another based on what they think can get them elected. thanks for the confirmations though, michael.

  96. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Oh yes Peter…. I’m naive… but not so much I actually
    believe that some of the leader candidates might not flip
    on this issue… thats why I pointed out Mulcairs 180
    on cannabis from his position on their “endprohibition”
    website… just two days after he was elected leader

    So… its a possibility… but I still want each
    and every candidate to declare their intention on
    Res. 117… then if they flip… shows their character.

    I think how quickly or slowly candidates get back
    to me also says something… it is a controversal issue
    … but one who’s time has long come in Canada
    The tipping point on this issue has been reached
    in Canada for sometime…
    2015 things WILL change in Canada

  97. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    Hope you’re right Michael, but we’re talking culture change. Canada as the only country in the world to legalize cannabis? Our image is still Mounties and tundra. Of course we have been progressive where other countries have lagged behind, especially with our Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, and a modestly liberal Supreme Court to help curb injustices. Never know!

  98. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Well Peter at this point, decrim is as good as its going
    to get… countless countries have decrim. Portugal
    being the best example… 10 years into it, they
    have lower cannabis use by far than in N. America in
    school kids… and after decrim their overall numbers
    of cannabis users is lower than before decrim.
    Canucks love our cannabis… in a 2007 study
    by the UN on drugs, Canadians per capita consume
    four times more cannabis than any other country.
    Recent polls show the number of Canadians that favour
    decrim has risen from 66% to as high
    as 75%.
    The tipping point on this issue has been
    reached in Canada… we USED to be world leaders
    in many fronts… Why not this one.
    Many south/central American countries already
    have decrim… as long as the US continues its
    futile war on drugs… gangsters will get rich.

    • Avatar of Tyler Logue Tyler Logue said on

      You see Michael (and everyone else pushing for decriminalization instead of proper regulation), decriminalization does not address the most harmful aspects of the prohibition of cannabis.
      -Cannabis smokers no longer sent to jail
      -Fewer members of society being turned into violent offenders
      -Free up the court system from futile marijuana trials
      -Save on taxes from not keeping our own non-violent citizens in jail

      Whereas regulation includes all of the benefits of decriminalization, without leaving all the glaring holes for criminals to exploit:
      -Put it behind a counter, ID, and send a clear message that it is for adults only
      -Tax it, fund social services by province and by territory
      -Decimate organized crime in communities 3-4 times over
      -Ensure that all product meets industry health standards
      -Label products so buyers know what they’re getting in terms of strength and strain
      -Create an entirely new industry, thousands of jobs
      -Revenue, revenue, revenue
      -Place emphasis on responsible and moderate use, like liquor control boards do
      -Place emphasis on treatment as a health issue, not a criminal issue

      I didn’t even list all of the pros for regulation because I want to keep my comment a readable length. But the point I’m making stands, if you aren’t going to legalize it or at least seriously consider legalizing it very soon, decriminalization is a complete and utter waste of time. When regulation is superior in almost every way, why should we ‘settle’ for the lesser? I was embarrassed to hear that cannabis was legalized in the states meanwhile here in Canada Harper continues to delude himself into thinking that it is not even an important enough issue to discuss, let alone act on. I don’t know how this could NOT be seen as an important issue when people all around me are being killed on the daily due to drug-related violence.

  99. Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

    You are missing a HUGE point, and that decriminalization is something that very few Canadians would disagree with, and, frankly, we have portions of it de facto, such as for medical use, simple possession in that no such user is being convicted of that crime, at least in Ontario. But the law needs to be tightened up so that police will no longer harass or jail for it, that previous criminal records will be wiped out, and it applies to all of Canada. Legalization, on the other hand, is a culture change and many Canadians will oppose it. I understand the revenue potential, and the traffikers who might become entrepreneurs, and the users who might be able to get prime bud at better prices, but I wouldn’t want to see a policy endorsed that might discourage anyone from voting Liberal. It will come, but wait until we’re in power.

    • Avatar of Tyler Logue Tyler Logue said on

      Well-put, Peter. Sadly, what you say is true. More people are for decriminalization than regulation, but only really because they don’t fully understand the nature of marijuana or the drug war.
      But I understand what you’re saying, we don’t want to scare off any potential voters, fully educated on this issue or not. The only reason I fear decriminalization is because I feel like it will simply become a “band-aid” cure and nothing further will be done about the war on drugs. I feel like not taking the full step all at once could cause great delay in proper and honest discussion of regulatory policies to improve our nation.

      That said, if it came down to a referendum, I would perhaps consider voting in favour of decriminalization – should it explicitly state that serious dialogue would follow on regulatory measures. Otherwise, I can’t see myself supporting it.

      • Avatar of Peter Haley Peter Haley said on

        and i think that is front-runner Trudeau’s position, decrim and have debate on regulation. others, as michael has pointed out, favour the policy as is, in principle at least. not sure about garneau and the serious others, but michael will keep after them, no doubt!

  100. Avatar of Michael Chopek Michael Chopek said on

    Apparently… there has not been a single charge
    of simple posesion of cannabis laid in the city
    of Kelowna in 2012…, so defacto decrim does exist.
    Its a non-starter, non-issue in Kelowna!!

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